Evidence of meeting #26 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was service.
A recording is available from Parliament.
7:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Péladeau and Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
We're now going to move on to the NDP, with Mr. Bachrach for two and a half minutes.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Field, I found what you said about the fact there's no single entity responsible for solving the problem very interesting, as well as your assertion that this creates inefficiencies and delays and such. One of the questions I've been trying to get an answer to from the government is which minister is in charge of delivering on the promises around rural broadband. Is it the infrastructure minister, the industry minister, or the rural economic development minister? It seems there's a lot of overlap among those departments, and yet there's not a clear answer on who's in charge of delivering on the promises. Do you have a sense of that, and do you feel that perhaps the overlap and the number of cooks in the kitchen is a liability when it comes to actual accountability for these promises that we're hearing?
7:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
Thank you.
I'm not going to comment too much on the political set-up, but I will reiterate that both at the federal and the provincial level many organizations, many groups, are all trying to tackle the problem of rural broadband, and I think that leads to inefficiencies and overlaps in trying to solve the problem.
7:40 p.m.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I have a really quick follow-up question. Another thing you mentioned was the presence of these grassroots ISPs in rural areas. You have groups that come together to solve the problem. They not doing it to make a lot of money; they're doing it because their community needs the service really badly. When we see these large envelopes of money become available for rural broadband delivery, we get much larger players interested in that same landscape. I'm wondering what happens to those small ISPs. How do we preserve their place in the mix, because in many ways they provide excellent service for their neighbours? Where do they fit in the current landscape?
7:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
In the SWIFT program we found that about 20% of our funding went to the large national carriers, about 25% went to medium-sized regional players and about 55% went to those local carriers we were talking about. Not only did the local carriers participate to a very high level, but they also stepped up with some very competitive applications to the program.
I think it's imperative that with any program that's looking to solve this problem, the government has to allow, in the policy and in the evaluation criteria it creates, for the participation of the small local carriers. These are the companies that spend money. They live in our communities. They spend money in our communities. They're important to the communities, and they certainly stepped up in the SWIFT program to helps us be successful.
7:40 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Field and Mr. Bachrach.
We're now going to go back to the Conservatives with Mr. Shipley for five minutes.
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you, Chair, and to all of the witnesses as well.
I apologize. It's interesting that I lost some connectivity at the beginning of the meeting, especially when Mr. Scheer was speaking. If I'm repeating any questions, I apologize.
Most of my time will be directed to Mr. Field. We're familiar with each other. SWIFT covers my riding, so I have some specific questions.
Mr. Field, very succinctly, when and who first formed SWIFT? How was it formed?
7:40 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
SWIFT was incorporated in 2016 by the Western Ontario Wardens' Caucus.
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you.
It's mainly been a municipally led initiative?
7:40 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Thank you.
Recently we've had some announcements and some success, and when I say “we”, we've all partnered up here. You and I have spoken in the past that it's always been a problem, especially lately in Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte in getting houses hooked up during the pandemic. We've had some great success and good announcements up here. A lot of homes are getting hooked up through your program. What has driven your success in this area in getting some homes hooked up for broadband? We've recently been able to announce that.
7:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
I think it's a number of things. First and foremost, it's been the financial support we've gotten from the federal, provincial and municipal governments to make the program happen, but equally important, the ISPs have really stepped up to participate in the program. I mentioned that earlier when I threw some numbers around. The ISPs put in roughly half the money to the SWIFT program. They certainly have a stake in the game and they've put their best foot forward to be as competitive as possible in the process.
7:45 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Mr. Field, as you well know, because we've spoken since, with some of those good announcements, though, came some people who were definitely disappointed because they just missed out. Perhaps you could educate me on what are some of the hurdles or what is the main hurdle that is causing some homes to still not be included in these announcements and in getting hooked up.
7:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
Yes. The bottom line is funding, right? With the SWIFT program, our target was to solve 23% of the underserved population in southwestern Ontario. If my math is correct, that still leaves 77% of the population unserved.
With future funding and future programs, hopefully, we will narrow that gap. SWIFT currently has a proposal in front of the federal and provincial governments called the “SWIFT 2.0 GigaProject”. The intention of that is to actually get to 95% of the population in southwestern Ontario via fibre, leaving the remaining 5% to wireless and low earth orbit technologies.
7:45 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
That would be great news.
Specifically, Mr. Field, as you know, because we spoke about it, certain areas of a subdivision, whether it be in Minesing, Anten Mills or Midhurst, get prioritized. I'm sure you're familiar with some of these names, because you're going to be doing some projects in them soon—
Some get prioritized. How do you prioritize which houses on which street in a certain area get done? What criteria do these communities have to meet to get hooked up?
7:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
Within the SWIFT program, we don't prioritize any given communities. We do run an open and competitive procurement process. Effectively, the ISPs bid on the areas that make sense to them to build in with the subsidy.
We don't give priority to one community over another. We are very intentional in that. We let the market drive us to where the solution will be, noting that we don't have enough money to solve 100% of the problem. If we had the money to solve it all, it would be a very different, targeted approach.
7:45 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
Again, Mr. Field, you have I have talked in the past. It's not the most cut and dried industry. It is a little confusing for a layperson. Could you explain it to me again? I get asked this question all the time. A certain street is getting done, but 50 yards down the road that street is not getting done. You say that it's a monetary issue. Where does that come in?
7:45 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
Yes. The reality is that a network has to start somewhere and it has to end somewhere. Unless and until you have enough funding to solve 100% of a given geography, you're going to have areas that get served and areas that don't get served. Given the linear nature of the infrastructure, it really does result in a lot of cases with what you're explaining: you'll have the network stop at a certain point. House A will get service and, 50, 100 or 250 metres down the road, the next house does not get service.
7:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Field.
I'm going to allow one quick question, Mr. Shipley. You have about 15 seconds left.
Go ahead.
7:45 p.m.
Conservative
Doug Shipley Conservative Barrie—Springwater—Oro-Medonte, ON
I was just going to sum up by saying that it's very unfortunate. If there's anything we can do to work towards getting those few houses that are left out added in, we'd be there to help you out in any way we can. If it comes down to in the form of money, there's only so much we can do with that, but we can ask our good friends in government to help us out a bit more there.
Thank you, Mr. Field.
7:45 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Vance Badawey
Thank you, Mr. Field and Mr. Shipley.
We're now going to move on to the Liberals, with Ms. Jaczek for five minutes.
7:45 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
Thank you very much, Chair.
Thank you to all the witnesses for your testimony today.
I would like to ask Mr. Field a few questions.
First of all, I'd like to thank you very much for explaining exactly how SWIFT came about. We had some complimentary words for SWIFT from the regional Niagara representatives who were here at our last meeting.
You've talked a lot about consolidating programs. One of the federal programs, though, that seems to me to have been extremely useful, is the rapid response stream. In my riding of Markham—Stouffville, I have a number of small hamlets, much like Mr. Shipley has in Simcoe County. The Region of York forum is basically the coordinating agency for all the various applicants, the various ratepayers groups and so on, that come forward looking for improved broadband.
In terms of the rapid response stream that was announced last November, two of my very small hamlets actually have received some assistance from the federal government through that particular stream. What is your experience in southwestern Ontario through SWIFT?
7:50 p.m.
Executive Director, Southwestern Integrated Fibre Technology
Thank you.
It's my understanding that a number—I believe there have now been three projects—have been awarded in southwestern Ontario under the rapid response program.
Just to clarify, I think the existence of all of these various programs isn't necessarily a bad thing. It tells me that there are multiple levels of government taking this seriously and trying to resolve the issue.
Again, I go back to the analogy that each program is taking a piece of the pizza but nobody is eating the whole pizza. I think that's what we have to get to—solutions whereby we're resolving the entire problem rather than taking little bites out of it here and there.
SWIFT is in that category as well. We were tasked with resolving 23% of the problem. That leaves a lot of the problem unresolved.
7:50 p.m.
Liberal
Helena Jaczek Liberal Markham—Stouffville, ON
I will go back to your statement that you would prefer to see the federal government simply transfer a block of money to the provinces and territories, for them to then disburse as they see fit, obviously with some consultation regionally and so on. Having been a member of the Ontario legislature for over 10 years, I have some sympathy for that position, but now being, obviously, at the federal level, I would say that the federal government does have a responsibility to the taxpayer to make sure that the distribution of these funds is done based on some logical criteria.
In your view, what criteria should be used to disburse funds in the way you suggest?