Transport Committee on May 4th, 2021

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Okay. With that, I'll pass off my time to Mr. Scheer.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mr. Scheer, the floor is yours.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Minister, you indicated that about a third of the funding in your department goes to the established telecoms. Is that correct?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

No, a third of the connect to innovate program, which we introduced in our last mandate to connect Canadians to high-speed Internet, supported larger telcos. There was a third for indigenous and a third for smaller ISPs.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Is it safe to say that, out of the universal broadband fund, money is going to the large, established telecoms as well?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

We are working with a diverse range of partners, and we want to make sure that smaller ISPs—Internet service providers—as well as medium-sized Internet service providers are part of the work, as we need them to be, along with the larger telcos.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

I'm looking at the project list, and I see quite a few entries for Bell and for Telus. Notably, there are no projects listed in Saskatchewan, Manitoba or Quebec so far.

We have this situation in Canada where the telecoms get special, privileged protection from competition. The federal government protects the large, established telecoms from all kinds of normal competitive dynamics. In return for that protection, they're supposed to give back to Canadians. Canadians pay some of the highest cellphone fees in the world, some of the highest fees for service when compared to most of our major trading partners.

The telecoms are massively profitable. In fact, Bell Canada just released its Q4 results a little while ago. They made $932 million in the last quarter. They made $2.7 billion in profit in 2020. Here we have a situation where these large telecoms are benefiting from their privileged protection from competition. Then they ask for a handout from this government, and your government is writing them cheques. We've seen this kind of corporate welfare under the Canadian Infrastructure Bank just recently. We've seen this kind of corporate welfare when this government gave $12 million to Loblaws and $50 million to Mastercard.

Can you tell this committee exactly how much money Bell Canada has received from the various broadband funds that your department administers?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Let me correct the record. We're investing across the country in every province and territory to connect folks to high-speed Internet. Just a few weeks ago, we announced a partnership with the Government of Quebec worth a combined total of more than $800 million to connect everybody, the remaining 150,000 residents without high-speed Internet, to this essential service.

I'm not sure what resource you're using, Mr. Scheer, which particular site, because what you're reading is inaccurate. I'm happy to provide you with accurate—

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

It's ic.gc.ca—

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Scheer.

Mr. Scheer, you have 10 seconds. If you want to make a point, go ahead.

[Andrew Scheer, Conservative, Regina—Qu'Appelle, SK]

Just very quickly, Minister, how much money have you given Bell Canada through the various funds that your department administers?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Éric, is this something that you can provide accurate info on to Mr. Scheer?

[Éric Dagenais]

Yes, thank you, Minister.

It's not something I can provide accurate information on at the moment, but it's something we can provide to Mr. Scheer later.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Scheer, Mr. Soroka and Minister Monsef.

We're now going to move on to the Liberals.

Ms. Jaczek, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for giving us an overview of our government's ongoing commitment in terms of broadband connectivity. You've been talking about billions of dollars and tens of thousands of projects, but I'd like to just bring it right down to the practical level, to the community level.

One of the most common concerns I hear from my constituents on connectivity is the issue of under-connectivity, in which households have very slow Internet connection that often can't support programs such as Zoom, which, of course, we all need to work and connect with loved ones remotely. People are frustrated when they don't have Internet services but their neighbours, say 100 metres away, do.

Could you explain, Minister, how our government is addressing this issue?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Doctor, for your very important work in these difficult times for your community. Canadians have every right to be frustrated. In the best of times life is hard without a decent Internet connection. COVID has just added to so many frustrations. To your point, everything's gone digital. For those who are a stone's throw away from a neighbour who's getting perfectly fine Internet access and they can't catch a break, or maybe they have too many breaks in their Internet connections, we've heard them.

What the universal broadband fund is offering applicants is not only to invest in the backbone infrastructure but also to go that extra mile, that last mile of connectivity needed to connect those households with less-than-stellar connections, and sometimes not a decent connection. This last-mile investment, along with investments in cellular and ongoing backbone infrastructure investments, will ensure that everybody has access to this essential service. The rapid response stream of the universal broadband fund, which I referred to earlier, provides those very communities a bit of extra support this fiscal year. If there are ways to connect them through fibre, for example, those funds are being deployed as we speak. Certainly, we're not going to stop until everybody has this access.

I absolutely hear those frustrations. They're real. They're all around me here in my community, too, but we're determined to make those connections as quickly as possible.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

We've also heard from a number of witnesses during the course of this study that small rural communities may lack the capacity to apply for government funding. Applications take time, sometimes, especially within the context of the pandemic. Some municipalities are just relying on a couple of hard-working staff members. What has our government done to ensure that small communities, and on the other side small ISPs, have the support to apply to a program like the universal broadband fund?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Thank you, Doctor.

First, we brought back the rural economic development secretariat. Alison O'Leary, our wonderful ADM, is here, along with Kelly Gillis. This is a one-stop shop within the federal government to renew those relationships and connections that were lost when the previous government made the decision to get rid of the secretariat. That's an important connection to rural communities.

Second, we recognize that some 60% of municipalities have fewer than five staff members supporting mayors and council and everything else, in addition to grant-writing, and that was before COVID. As I said, the broadband fund we put forward includes a pathfinder service. It's a phone number as well as an email address that folks can reach out to and keep coming back to. That hand-holding we've been doing is working. We're seeing increases in applications directly correlated with those who called and reached out to us, and the strength of applications received from those smaller communities.

In addition, across government we're applying the rural lens. As we develop programs and policies, we take into account ways to make them more accessible to rural communities. We're collecting data so that rural communities and Canadians know that they're being counted.

With both the universal broadband fund and the work that I'm doing with women and gender equality, we've streamlined applications so that it's easier, and more accessible and more inclusive for all applicants to take advantage of federal funds, including those in rural communities.

Certainly, I look forward to any recommendations that come from this committee to make sure that we make our processes, programs and policies even more inclusive for rural and small communities.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister, and Ms. Jaczek.

We're now going to move on to the Bloc, with Mr. Barsalou-Duval for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, you ended the discussion earlier by reassuring us about the criteria for the gas tax fund, which has a new name that I can't remember, because we're used to calling it this.

You said this, and I believe you. However, the municipal representatives aren't fools. Every time I speak to representatives of cities or towns in my constituency, the first thing that I hear is that the gas tax fund can no longer be used for the projects that used to be carried out with the money. I hear the same thing from the Fédération québécoise des municipalités, the Union des municipalités du Québec and the Quebec representatives of the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. If all these people are unhappy, there must be a reason.

Could this be a game of semantics? Is it possible that the criteria haven't changed, but that the interpretation and application of the criteria have changed? If nothing has changed on your end, why are all these people unhappy?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's a great follow-up, and I certainly hear from those municipal leaders as well. We haven't changed our criteria for this important program. The Province of Quebec may have, but we have not.

Deputy, is there anything you'd like to add to that?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Ms. Gillis.

[Kelly Gillis]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Quebec has a similar program. In the past, the program was used for various buildings that were never eligible for the Canadian program. Quebec aligned its program with ours. We didn't change the interpretation. Quebec did.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Gillis.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, go ahead.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Has the federal government had any discussions with Quebec to force the province to align its program with the federal program?