Transport Committee on May 4th, 2021

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We'll now move to Mr. Bachrach of the NDP.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome, Minister, to our committee. I've been listening intently, and I have a few questions that I'd love for you to take a crack at answering.

As the Minister for Rural Economic Development, I wonder if you could share with us how you define “rural”.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Well, I'm in a mixed rural-urban riding, with some rural adjacent. There are some communities, as in my colleague Gudie Hutchings' riding, that have a population in the double digits or sometimes triple digits. Each province and territory has a different definition for their rurality, in accordance with our infrastructure agreements with them.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Does your department have a definition for “rurality”?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

We do.

Deputy.

[Kelly Gillis]

For the investing in Canada program, we have defined that the rural and northern infrastructure stream is for a maximum population of 100,000. However, in the agreement with the provinces and territories, some of them have reduced that number to what makes sense for their jurisdictions. That's how we've defined it for that particular program for smaller municipalities. Again, in that particular stream, we allow a wide range of different types of eligible programs that make sense and can be prioritized for rural municipalities.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, does your department prioritize ensuring equity between investment in rural communities versus urban communities? Is that one of your priorities as a department?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Absolutely. In fact, we've worked with our partners across the country, and of course with our rural caucus, to develop a rural lens. We applied this lens to the COVID response. That's been really helpful. It helps us see how different measures are affecting different communities of different sizes differently and, of course, to mitigate. For example, if we see that a certain program is not seeing the kind of uptake that we need to see in a smaller or rural community, that changes our approach.

We applied a rural lens to the universal broadband fund. One outcome, to your point, was that smaller communities don't have the capacity to do the grant-writing that larger communities may have. We've put in place a concierge service, a one-stop shop that communities can call. A really smart official, usually an engineer, will pick up that call on behalf of the federal government and help applicants navigate the difficult process, connect them with engineers and project managers or others in the region who also want to get connected, so it's a better service and a better outcome and a more efficient outcome for them.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Do you track investment in rural infrastructure over time, as a department?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Yes, we do. In fact, as part of the universal broadband investment we will be collecting rural data through a partnership with StatsCan to see how these funds are affecting rural communities as those connections are made.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

On a per capita basis, would you say that rural Canada is receiving equitable infrastructure investment compared to urban Canada?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

Rural communities are getting more investments, particularly with budget 2021, through our government's efforts than from any other government that has come before us.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is that something your department tracks, the ratio or the per capita investment between rural and urban Canada?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

We track every dollar invested very carefully.

Deputy, perhaps you can provide more detail to our colleague.

[Kelly Gillis]

Certainly.

As the minister said, we do track where our investments are going. We even map them. You can look at a rural community and see what types of investments have been made in your community. At this point, we do know that there have been about 5,500 projects worth almost $10 billion invested in rural Canada since 2015.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I keep trying to get at this in different ways, but essentially we don't have a single definition of what a rural community is. Yes, there's a map that shows where all the investments are, but to get a sense of whether there's equity on a per capita basis between rural Canada and urban Canada, first of all there has to be a single definition. Second, we need to track that data over time. It feels like that isn't something that really takes place. It's something I'd really recommend.

In 2019, the CRTC found that 99.6% of urban Canada has access to high-speed broadband; 45.6% of rural Canada has access to broadband. Why has rural Canada fallen so far behind when it comes to access to broadband?

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's an important question. It's one reason I put my name on the ballot. I saw communities like mine, with so much to give, not having the right kind of voice or advocacy or investments. That's changed.

Take broadband, for example. Our government has invested more in broadband connectivity than all governments that have come before us combined. We see the value of investing in rural communities. When they thrive, they create jobs for the rest of us and improve the quality of life for all of us.

While I can't speak to the record of governments that have come before us, our record for delivering for rural communities is strong, and we'll continue to be there for them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

We're now going to move on to our second round, five minutes apiece for the Conservatives and the Liberals, and two and a half minutes for the Bloc and the NDP, followed by five minutes each for the Conservatives and the Liberals.

We're going to start our first set of questions with Mr. Soroka.

Mr. Soroka, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll be splitting my time with Mr. Scheer.

My first question, Minister, is about the spectrum auctions and how many companies have benefited from them over the years. I'll give an example. In Alberta, Shaw has deployed only 8% of the spectrum in the rural part of Alberta. I'm wondering if you'll do a “use it or lose it” clause when it comes to spectrum auctions.

[Maryam Monsef, Liberal, Peterborough—Kawartha, ON]

That's a very important question, Gerald.

I'll ask Éric to answer it, as he and his team are hard at work on this as we speak.

[Éric Dagenais]

Thank you, Minister.

There's an upcoming auction of the 3500 megahertz spectrum starting on June 15, and the deployment conditions that are associated with those spectrum licences are the most aggressive deployment conditions that we've ever put in place, and they do support, essentially, a “use it or lose it” policy. Then we will be putting in place the spectrum auction rules for the 3800 megahertz auction, which will be taking place—

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Sorry, so how much time do they have to use it before they lose it?

[Éric Dagenais]

There are different milestones that they have to meet at year five, year 10 and year 20. They are 20-year licences, and we expect to see progress by the ISPs—

[Gerald Soroka, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

Okay, so nothing will be that short-term. It's yearly, then extended all the way to 20 years.

[Éric Dagenais]

There are different milestones at different time frames. They have to start investing right away to meet those milestones.