Transport Committee on Nov. 19th, 2020

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Minister, you're saying, then, you'll release the funds. Both the City of Toronto and York Region are waiting for the $5.1-billion release of funds. Is that a commitment today to release those funds?

I'm glad you brought up business plans, because it turns out that for the Réseau express métropolitain in Montreal, as well as the Broadway subway in Vancouver, both of those projects apparently did not require business plans. Therefore, it seems as though your application process is inconsistent as well.

What I'm hearing you say today is that you are committed to this project and that you're willing to release those funds, so when can they expect the $5.1 billion?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I just want to be clear that I'm responsible for taxpayers' dollars. We need to see business plans. We need to understand costing. That's critically important. I'm not going to apologize for that to a Conservative member, who I assume would want to make sure that's exactly what we're doing.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

You didn't require it for the Réseau express métropolitain in Montreal or the Broadway subway in Vancouver. There seems to be inconsistency. It seems to me here that we're agreeing that it is an important business practice to be consistent, yet that doesn't seem to have been the case.

I'm very glad you've brought up that the federal government is willing to do its part, because both the provincial and the municipal funding commitments are there. Therefore, I'm just asking you whether you can commit today to providing your funding, the $5.1 billion from the federal government, that is desperately needed to finish this project.

It sounds as though we're both in line here in terms of expecting performance, wanting results, commitment to better transit, and committing these funds to projects that benefit Canadians. Can you make a commitment to release the funds today, please?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Look. We're working very closely with the Government of Ontario to understand the numbers. I know my deputy can talk about her good, very strong relationship with her counterpart in Ontario, but once again, we are responsible for taxpayers' dollars. I believe it is on me to make sure that we have plans, that we are very clear about how these investments are going to go.

I am keen on getting more public transit built. We've invested 13 times what the previous government invested. You were the Conservative government, and we want to get—

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Then release the money. Let it flow.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

I just am surprised. Would you like me to release the money? Should I just give money to people without holding them accountable?

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Well, apparently you did that in Montreal and Vancouver in support of transit.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Okay, thank you, members. We are now going to have to go to the next speaker.

Thank you, Ms. Kusie; thank you, Minister.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

Thank you, Minister; and thank you, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

We are now going to go on to Ms. Jaczek.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here with your officials.

It seems like Ms. Kusie and I are often on the same wavelength because I was going to ask you to highlight some of the investments that we have made since 2015 in public transit. She mentioned a couple. Perhaps you could fill us in on the range of investments in public transit that the ministry of infrastructure has actually made to date.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's great because I think it is really important to talk about. I said it 13 times and that's actually good because it's $13 billion that we have invested in public transit since were elected. I remind you that Conservatives ran on a platform to cut $18 billion in infrastructure spending, so maybe that was all of the public transit investments that we've made that wouldn't actually have gotten built.

Let's talk about the transit hub in Brampton, Ontario. I was just making an announcement with the mayor of Brampton. He is so excited about this transit hub and how it is going to transform Brampton and get more people around faster in more affordable and cleaner ways.

There's the transit hub in the Cowichan Valley in B.C. There are projects like electric school buses and charging infrastructure in Charlottetown, Milton, Durham region, Kawartha Lakes, Kingston, St. Thomas, Oakville, Waterloo, Stratford and Guelph. I could go on.

Since coming to office at the end of 2015, we have invested more than $13.3 billion in public transit projects across the country. That's 13 times more than the previous government that only invested a billion dollars.

I like the ambition of provinces like Ontario. I want to get more public transit built. I want to get more public transit built in Hamilton. I think that we need to be moving forward.

I've heard from Jerry Dias. He said that it's so important that we get the streetcars for Toronto because that's good Bombardier jobs in Thunder Bay. I think that's what this is about.

Why? These are the “triple benefits” I spent so much time talking about—public transit, jobs, Canadian supply chain, electric buses, streetcars and economic growth. The largest driver of economic growth is investment in infrastructure.

Climate action.... When we talk about public transit and electric buses, that makes a huge impact in reducing emissions. Of course there's inclusivity, because who is taking public transit? It's often our essential workers who we have seen in the pandemic depend on public transit. It's people who do not have access to vehicles; they cannot afford vehicles. It's young people who don't even want cars. I found that out from my kids—they never want to have a car; they just want to get around on public transit.

This is really the opportunity. This is how we're going to build a better country, a cleaner country and a country with good jobs where it is inclusive for all.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you very much, Minister.

I would turn to the Yonge North subway. I represent a riding in York region, and this is an extremely important project to all the members in York region—both government and opposition of course.

You talk about the need for a business plan. I am someone who is extremely familiar with the topography, as an example, of the potential route, and that is a very hilly part of York region. I can only imagine that there's a need for a very close examination of the potential routes and the options that are available, such as underground or over ground, etc.

Could you just elaborate a little bit on the need for the level of detail that you require from the province?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

Thanks very much for the question.

I should start by saying that we're already supporting the Yonge North subway extension. We've done so by providing funding for preliminary engineering in York region. I think this is a really good project.

Of course, we need to look at where the route is going to be, details about the costs and the full business case. These are a requirement because in the end, like the province of Ontario has to do, I have to go to my Treasury Board and justify every dollar, which we should. We need to be accountable. These are taxpayer dollars.

We've been really encouraging the province to give us the business case for this project and to really help our government to understand, so that we can make sure we're accountable to taxpayers while moving ahead on a project that would be great.

It's just so interesting. I'm not very used to Conservatives attacking Liberals for being prudent about taxpayer dollars.

I am someone who believes we need to be fiscally responsible, but we have to be ambitious on infrastructure. It seems that the Conservatives don't want to be fiscally responsible and we know they don't really want to invest in infrastructure, so it's kind of the opposite.

Look, we support the Yonge subway extension and we've said so extensively on the public record. It's really up to the province to get its ducks in a row and get us the information we need to do a proper funding evaluation, so we can get this project underway.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. McKenna. Thank you, Ms. Jaczek.

We're now going to move on for two and a half minutes to Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

You have the floor.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Madam Minister, in your presentation, you spoke about the Port of Montreal and the Contrecœur Terminal. When you were asked about that, you said that it's more Transport Canada's responsibility. When I asked you about the gas tax, you said that it's more Quebec's responsibility. We know very well that, in both cases, it's your responsibility. When things are positive, they are yours; when things are negative, they are not.

The Canada Infrastructure Bank is associated with one project: the high-frequency rail project in the Quebec City-Windsor corridor. In government documents that were made public not so long ago, the recommendation was to drop the segment from Montreal to Quebec City.

We said earlier that Quebec is not getting its fair share of infrastructure investments. I would like to know whether there will be a concrete commitment from your government to bring the project to fruition and for the segment from Montreal to Quebec City to be part of it

In your answer, I would ask you not to tell me once more that it is not your fault.

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

It's important to work with Quebec. I really love the province. We have done a cost-benefit study of high-frequency rail. It is very important for people in those regions of Quebec and Ontario to have access to trains. We are examining the project and we will make a decision in the coming months.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Is your government committing to funding the Montreal-Quebec City segment, yes or no? Are you going to abandon Quebec again?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

First of all, we are not abandoning Quebec. We have made historic investments in infrastructure all across the country, including in Quebec. I am very happy when people talk to me about the investments we are making in public transportation. The investment that the Canada Infrastructure Bank has made in the REM is but one example and shows the importance of working with the Government of Quebec.

As you know, Michael Sabia…

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I am going to have to interrupt you, because I would really like an answer to my question.

You say that you are not abandoning Quebec, but the figures do not lie. Reports from the Parliamentary Budget Officer and from the Auditor General are very clear: federal infrastructure investment in Quebec is underfunded. The same goes for the National Trade Corridors Fund that I mentioned earlier.

Are you going to give us a guarantee that you are going to fund the Montreal-Quebec City segment of the high-frequency rail project?

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you.

Minister, could you give a short answer, please?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

A study on the high-frequency rail project is currently underway. We are not abandoning Quebec; we are investing in the province. We examine Quebec's projects to determine whether we will fund them. I have spent a lot of time in Quebec and I know how important infrastructure projects are because they help to grow the economy, to fight against climate change and to make communities more inclusive. We will continue to invest in infrastructure in that province.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Now we will move on for two and a half minutes to Mr. Bachrach.

The floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, I'd like to come back to one of my previous questions on rural broadband.

In the question I asked previously, you deferred to the industry minister. It reminded me of a report that was tabled at the heritage committee, I believe in January or February, “Canada's Communications Future: Time to Act”. There was a specific mention in that report in the section around rural broadband that said the lack of a single minister in charge of the rural broadband file is something that is potentially holding back progress on that issue.

Who is in charge of delivering rural broadband?

[Catherine McKenna, Liberal, Ottawa Centre, ON]

That's a really great question.

In fact, when you look at our rural broadband plan...and I must correct myself. We didn't put in $1.5 billion; we actually put in $1.75 billion. We enhanced the fund, but we also increased coordination.

For a number of reasons, with provinces and territories, they asked, through our investing in Canada plan, that broadband be one of the opportunities under rural and northern, but not exclusively, so it's up to them to decide. Then ISED has a significant role to play. The Canada Infrastructure Bank's role is very specific—