Transport Committee on Nov. 26th, 2020

[Chris Bittle, Liberal, St. Catharines, ON]

I won't go into too much depth on this. I want to echo what my colleagues have said, but also add that this motion is so broad as to not really provide much direction.

I know Mr. Bachrach is new. I think it might be a much better process to discuss this, review the report and make recommendations of substance, rather than just trying for a quick motion headline that doesn't mean anything because it's so broad and so open to interpretation.

I'm not supportive of it because it's far too broad. The best way to do this is how we normally do it, which is to discuss it among committee members, and if it's the will of the committee, that's the best way to go.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Mrs. Kusie.

[Stephanie Kusie, Conservative, Calgary Midnapore, AB]

We definitely feel this is not entirely resolved. From the testimony of the witnesses yesterday, it is evident to us that several of the family members still feel as though this is not resolved, as well as some of the individuals who appeared in the second hour of testimony. However, similar to the thoughts of Mr. Rogers, we feel it would be premature to go to a public inquiry at this time. We should let this study conclude and wait to see the decision of the government based on the information it has learned from the study.

We feel some steps would be necessary to ensure the complete resolution of not only our work but also our consciences, in terms of the families and all other Canadians who may have the potential to fly on this aircraft in the future.

We would hope that when the government comes to its decision, which Mr. Robinson indicated at the beginning of our time together was imminent, we could bring the minister forward again in an effort to question him on his final sign-off, his justification for the decision, and if necessary, extend the study at that time if we do not feel it is satisfactory, so that we can look at the faces of those families we had yesterday and hear their stories.

We do not feel it is resolved. However, we feel that at this time, particularly in a pandemic where we have the failure of an entire sector—for which, by the way I'm very disappointed there is still no plan and we need to discuss this as soon as possible as well as solutions for that—now is not the right time for a public inquiry. We need to see the outcomes of the work the committee is currently doing, what the department and minister draw from that work, and the decisions they will make at that time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Kusie.

I'll now go to Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

The floor is yours.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank Mr. Bachrach for introducing his motion. I feel that the issue it raises is important: should there be a public inquiry into this matter? I will not hide from members of this committee the fact that I was not really satisfied by the answers provided on the Canadian certification process.

In fact, I have been very concerned with this kind of complicity or lack of will to dig deeper, especially after the revelations we have heard. I was very disappointed to see no concern and no will to change the process. That worries me greatly because, if the Americans, or any other nation, send us a lemon, we are going to approve it, do two or three little tests, take one flight in it, and that will be that.

Knowing what I know now, I am having a really hard time saying that we are doing this matter justice and handling it responsibly. I am thinking of the victims who came here to the committee, who touched me greatly, and who are still grieving. It is impossible for us to fail to ask more questions.

So I am very sympathetic to the motion introduced by Mr. Bachrach for those reasons. I would like to have seen a sincere will to reform or question the current process, which, in my opinion, has problems. Pilots submitted reports. They weren't critical reports, but the fact remains that some critical systems—new systems—were not tested. It seems to me that there were shortcomings in some respects. Perhaps I am mistaken, but an inquiry would allow us to find out whether I am mistaken, whatever my intuition tells me. If our process is actually too sloppy as well, we become as responsible as the original authority.

I feel that it is important for us not to be complicit with the authorities, especially following experiences that tell us that we should be more vigilant.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

I'll now go to Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I appreciate the committee having this discussion about my motion. As a way of speaking to why I feel the motion is advisable, I want to address a few of the points raised by my colleagues.

Ms. Jaczek mentioned that she feels that the committee has enough information, but I want to make it clear that the public inquiry is not about satisfying the needs of the committee; the inquiry is about satisfying the needs of all Canadians. On Tuesday, we heard testimony from Mr. Njoroge and Mr. Moore that, frankly, I found gut-wrenching. They obviously have not gotten the answers they need. I just feel that it behooves us as a committee to do what we can to help them get the answers and the closure they need. Frankly, as Mr. Barsalou-Duval alluded to in his remarks, I don't believe the committee has received satisfactory answers to all our questions. There are questions about this process, about the way that Canada certified or validated the certification of these aircraft, that remain outstanding. That is why I think a public inquiry is the right thing to do. This motion simply calls on the government to put such an inquiry in place.

The other point, made by my colleague Ms. Kusie, was around the timing of the inquiry and the fact that, in her view, it is premature to go to an inquiry. With all due respect, I understand this is a very difficult time for our country, but right now our government is in the process of returning these airplanes to the sky. Just on November 18, Minister Garneau said that he expects the validation process to conclude “very soon”. Therefore, time is of the essence, and this type of thing is very timely, because these airplanes before too long could be back in the skies and people are going to be wondering if they're safe to fly on. We heard from our witness, the independent engineer, on Tuesday, and he disagrees. He doesn't think they are safe.

It's an issue on which Canadians deserve answers, and I believe a public inquiry will have powers to find those answers that go beyond the powers of this committee.

We asked for Boeing to appear before us and answer our questions on the Canadian context and how what has happened in the United States affects our validation and to get answers for Canadian citizens, and they haven't appeared before the committee. I think that's something that an inquiry would be able to get answers on.

I'll end my comments there, and I appreciate the time to discuss my motion.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

With no other speakers, I will move to the clerk to do the roll call.

(Motion negatived: nays 9; yeas 2)

Thank you, Mr. Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach and members of the committee.

If we may, we will now move in camera to finish with today's agenda.

[Proceedings continue in camera]