Transport Committee on Dec. 1st, 2020

[Brigitte Diogo]

Yes, thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are aware of this issue. We are indeed looking at it, working with Transport Canada on the options to address it going forward.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Diogo, Ms. Frison, and Ms. Kusie.

We're now going to move to Ms. Jaczek for six minutes.

Ms. Jaczek, the floor is yours.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses for your presentations and for your testimony with Ms. Kusie. Of course, I think we're all very aware of how important the pilots are going to be in terms of the rapid testing on arrival.

I will emphasize, of course, that the second test after the person has arrived is extremely important in relation to the potential for transmission during the flight itself. We're well aware that infectious diseases have been transmitted during long flights in the past, tuberculosis being a case in point, and even during SARS, there was transmission on the airplane itself.

I am wondering—perhaps it's more appropriate for Ms. Diogo—what we know about transmission in the early days of the COVID-19 epidemic in terms of the number of cases that were potentially contracted on the plane itself. Is there any information coming back from contact tracing of positive cases that you could give us some information on?

[Brigitte Diogo]

We do have some data on COVID cases among travellers who made their journey through air travel. Currently there is a requirement to report those cases, so we get the information from public health officials. That information is published on our website. I would be happy to provide some statistics to the committee related to transmission.

Overall, the border measures have been in place since March. The first cases of COVID were related to people who were affected by air travel. We found that, following the imposition of the border measures, the rates of travel-related transmission have decreased significantly. Certainly, there is some data we can provide to the committee for your study.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

I think it would be very useful. It might be good to see that, as you say, once those border measures were put in place, there was less transmission during the flight itself. I think that's important for the travelling public to know. They are clearly very leery of flying at this point in time.

In relation, the Department of Transport did relay to us some of the measures that have been taken in order to, hopefully, provide safety during the flight. Could you, as the Public Health Agency of Canada, confirm for us that you're confident that these measures are working and are important?

I will disclose that at the health committee this summer, we did hear from the airlines. It was at the time when WestJet, in particular, had eliminated the middle seats on planes. They were going to go back and reinstate the possibility of having three people abreast, which, of course, does not allow for physical distancing.

Could you reassure us or assure us on behalf of your agency that you are confident that the measures that are being taken are contributing significantly to the safety of passengers?

[Brigitte Diogo]

I would say the quick answer to that question is yes. In our view, the risk remains low. Given some of the measures that have been put in place, including the screening of passengers before boarding and some of the measures that have been taken in terms of wearing masks, the temperature check and the overall series of measures like ventilation, I believe that the studies have shown that they are all contributing to reducing the risk.

Dr. Tam recently has mentioned during her updates that, in the view of the Public Health Agency, the risk on airplanes is low.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Perhaps I could turn to the issue of safety in airports themselves. Perhaps Ms. Frison from Health Canada has had a look at this. Obviously, there are far fewer people flying; however, airports are usually pretty crowded places.

Have there been any particular provisions from the perspective of Health Canada or advice to airports on reducing the possibility of the spread of COVID-19?

[Monique Frison]

I'm not aware of any particular advice to airports.

My understanding is that airports follow the public health measures that are put in place by provincial and territorial governments. As far as the recommendations from the federal government are concerned, they are be related to hygiene, social distancing, masks, and the layers of support for protecting against transmission.

[Helena Jaczek, Liberal, Markham—Stouffville, ON]

Ms. Diogo, could you enlighten us on the situation in airports? Who exactly has the responsibility to ensure public health protection within airports?

[Brigitte Diogo]

The Public Health Agency has indeed issued guidance through the Canadian aviation sector. We have been working with airports, looking at increased measures, such as social distancing and non-surgical mask requirements. That guidance is available on our website. We are working closely with Air Canada. We continue to pay attention to what's happening at airports.

Currently, the volumes are very low. If the volumes were to increase to a level higher than they are now, certainly some of those measures would become more challenging in maintaining social distancing at all times. The fact that the wearing of the mask is a requirement is contributing to reducing the risk.

From the Public Health Agency of Canada, we have also increased our presence at airports and at border crossings.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Diogo and Ms. Jaczek.

We're now going to Mr. Barsalou-Duval, for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Several months ago, in May 2020, we learned that rapid testing kits made by Spartan BioScience, which had been approved by Health Canada and which cost millions of dollars, turned out to be ineffective and unreliable. Transport Canada had to recall those tests.

Why did Health Canada approve those ineffective tests?

[Brigitte Diogo]

I'm not aware of this issue, but we can certainly follow-up if Monique doesn't have an answer to this question.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you. I would very much like to have that answer.

These were rapid testing kits that we might well have wanted to use in aviation in order to reduce the length of quarantines. So it is important that the tests be effective. When Health Canada approves tests that turn out to be ineffective, the public's trust in the system becomes weaker. It is then even more difficult for the industry to use that kind of test, desirable though it may be.

I feel this is a very appropriate question and I would like to have an answer.

Furthermore, when do you feel that we will be able to have reliable tests, at least in aviation, so that we can reduce the length of the quarantines?

[Brigitte Diogo]

Thank you for your question.

At the moment, there is no set date or goal date for reducing the length of quarantine. We are examining the results of pilot projects, like the one in Alberta. We are analyzing the data from those pilot projects. We will then consider possible ways of reducing the length of the quarantine.

It is certainly an option at the moment, but we are at the stage of assembling data so that we can make decisions. It must be done after consultation with the provinces and territories.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Yes, of course, it is most important to respect Quebec's jurisdiction, especially in matters of health.

The pilot project has been running for several months. Do you not have preliminary data?

[Brigitte Diogo]

The pilot project has been operating since the beginning of November. We still do not have all the results from that project. For the data we need, a number of factors must be considered. For example, we have to consider not only the type of test but also its duration. As you know, that is not always clear. The symptoms of the virus do not necessarily appear when the illness starts. So we have to examine different scenarios with the provinces and territories.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

I understand. That factor makes things difficult. People are tested, but if they have no symptoms, how do we ensure that things do not develop differently thereafter? Basically, there can be false negatives that are not because of the test itself but rather because of the nature of the illness.

Let us go back to the beginning of the pandemic last March. The Public Health Agency of Canada issued no messages at all about the importance of closing the border. Thereafter, we saw an extremely rapid increase in the number of cases in Canada. Elsewhere in the world, however, things happened much sooner.

Had the Public Health Agency of Canada previously recommended that the government close the border before it was done?

[Brigitte Diogo]

The Public Health Agency of Canada reacted quite quickly, as early as December, when it got wind of the situation. Certainly, with hindsight, we might wonder why certain things were not done. I can tell you that the measures that were put in place allowed the danger to be managed. That's why those measures have been continuously renewed since that time.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

So you cannot tell me, if the reaction had come earlier, whether COVID-19 would have been less virulent in Quebec, for example.

My next question is also about the government's actions.

Let's go back in time a little. Officials from the City of Montreal went to the airport with people from the Government of Quebec to distribute information documents on COVID-19 because nothing was being done federally. Do you find that inaction to be acceptable?

[Brigitte Diogo]

I would really like to have more specifics on the situation you are describing.

An important aspect of our actions is to communicate with Canadians. From the start of the measures we implemented, we were distributing information leaflets and posters in the airports.

Of course, action must not just come from the federal government. The provinces and territories took additional measures, as they saw fit. The more the better.

[The Chair, Liberal, Vance Badawey]

Thank you, Ms. Diogo.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

We now move on to Mr. Bachrach of the NDP for six minutes.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and to our witnesses for being with us today. It might not be quite as exciting as the Fortnite game that Ms. Frison's son is partaking in, but we'll try to make it as interesting as possible.

I want to go back to something that Ms. Jaczek started discussing, and that is the sale of the middle seat and physical distancing on airplanes.

I was remembering back to June. We had Minister Garneau before our committee, and we spoke specifically about physical distancing. In his remarks, if I recall correctly, he said that physical distancing is the most important thing. He really highlighted its importance in terms of keeping people safe from the transmission on aircrafts. Then, sometime after that, we had the international airline industry advocating for that restriction to be loosened. Eventually, Transport Canada went along with that, and they started selling the middle seats.

I'm wondering if that was done in consultation with PHAC, whether it was at the advice of the agency and whether that was a move that increased or decreased people's safety on these airplanes. Given the minister's earlier remarks, it seems that this was noted when it occurred and they started selling the middle seats.

Could you speak to that process? Was this something that your agency agreed was safe to do?

[Brigitte Diogo]

We work very closely with Transport Canada and other agencies. The conversation is constant. I won't go as far as saying that the Public Health Agency approved the change in terms of selling middle seats. Those decisions are company decisions. I'm not aware of how Transport Canada played in that, but certainly, on the conversations related to what are the risks, as you know, part of the advice of the Public Health Agency is that when social distancing is not possible, the wearing of the non-surgical masks is a recommended approach.

I would also say that in the conversations and exchanges we had with Transport Canada was the exchange of information in terms of what evidence and information was coming through the international community in terms of airplanes and how they were built, etc., but the Public Health Agency does not provide a sanction. There's no sanction in those types of decisions.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Is it fair to say, based on that answer, that PHAC was not consulted by Transport Canada or the airlines prior to the relaxation of the social distancing measures?