Transport Committee on Feb. 29th, 2024

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the witnesses for being here today.

My first questions will be for Amtrak's Mr. Eaton.

I'm hoping you can confirm this. I've heard that Amtrak trains, so passenger trains, have priority over freight trains in the United States. Is that true for the entire rail system or just on the tracks operated by Amtrak? Does that also hold true on the tracks that don't belong to Amtrak? Do your trains run on tracks that don't belong to Amtrak?

It's a very broad question, but I'm hoping to understand how this works, because here, freight trains have priority.

[Robert Eaton]

Regarding preference, at Amtrak we do have preference on all the routes we operate. That was part of our origination in 1970. I spoke to that.

In terms of other railroads and other passenger rail, commuter rail has different requirements and obligations, as well as enjoying different privileges of rail, but it's specific to Amtrak in terms of preference.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

So only Amtrak has priority over freight cars. Only your trains enjoy that preference, not necessarily those that belong to other companies.

Does this have an impact on the efficiency of your operations?

[Robert Eaton]

While we do enjoy preference, sometimes that is not always adhered to. In terms of our preference, the better dispatching that we have improves our performance and our efficiency and our reliability for our passengers.

Did I answer your question?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Yes, thank you.

Ms. Lacoste, thank you very much for being here today.

I have a comment for everyone around the table. Some people have come before the committee to say that they'd like the train to stop in their town, and to argue how important that would be. Drummondville's case is a bit different. Drummondville is located on the south shore of the St. Lawrence River, so on the side that already has a rail line, and won't be serviced by the new train. As it currently stands, the plan is for the new company that will run the train on the north shore to also manage operations and time slots on the south shore. That means that a private consortium will be managing the time slots on the north shore, but also on the south shore.

Do you think that the time slots being managed by the new consortium will be a good thing for the south shore?

[Stéphanie Lacoste]

If it means that passenger trains will have priority over freight trains, then we're definitely open to the idea. Indeed, service reliability is currently one of the main issues. The freight trains and the tracks themselves belong to Canadian National, so they have priority, meaning that passenger trains often have to wait. This leads to service interruptions and significant delays, resulting in people not trusting the transportation system and deciding to drive instead.

We were promised in the past that Drummondville would become a hub of rail transportation to ensure the reliability and extent of train schedules, which would've allowed us to have efficient service, as much on the north shore as on the south shore, and to ensure adequate service in the cities already serviced by passenger trains.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Ms. Lacoste.

I'll yield the rest of my time to my colleague Martin Champoux, the member for Drummond.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have two minutes, Mr. Champoux.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Lacoste, I'll continue with you, because you just mentioned the rail hub that people have been talking about, from which trains could one day depart toward Quebec City, Montreal, and other destinations, which would undoubtedly be a huge asset for the region's socio-economic development. I'd like to hear more of your thoughts on that.

You mentioned it in your opening statement. To what extent would that rail hub be important—essential, even—to the economic development of the Drummondville area? What is the status of the municipality's efforts on this file? When you talked about this, you said that some commitments were made in the past.

[Stéphanie Lacoste]

Precisely.

We were told that the north shore and south shore projects would be rolled out together. The City of Drummondville acquired the lots necessary for the construction of the rail hub around the current station. We also set up a large-scale housing project in the area of the station in order to make it a focal point.

That said, the city is ready to welcome this rail hub that was promised to us. We were also told, among other things, that the number of train departures would increase. We currently have five, and there was talk of increasing that to eight.

Why's that important?

As I've already said, Drummondville has a vibrant economy. We need a lot of labour, among other things. We're looking to grow the entire service industry into a driving force for the region. We will also be welcoming the battery industry. All of these things are great opportunities, but they also come with their share of challenges. The train will allow us to get the skilled labour from major centres. These workers will be able to settle in the region, where the quality of life will be attractive to families.

[Martin Champoux, Bloc, Drummond, QC]

Indeed, that's especially the case of Drummondville, which we know to be a great place to live.

Thank you very much, Madam Mayor.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much Madam Mayor, Mr. Champoux.

Last up in this first hour is Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours for six minutes, please.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much to our witnesses for contributing to this study.

I'd like to start with Mr. Eaton on the topic of comparing passenger rail in Canada to passenger rail in the United States. It seems that one of the key differences is this federal legislation that you described, which gives Amtrak's passenger trains preference or priority on the tracks it shares with freight trains. Could you talk about what it would look like in the United States if Amtrak did not have that federal legislation?

[Robert Eaton]

I think that if we did not have that preference, conditions could be worse, but I want to finish up with that in terms of how we have a very strong relationship with our host railroads.

Even though the statute was given to us during our formation in 1970, we've been working with that, and we strive to work with our host railroads to have open communication and to solve the issue on preference and on-time performance. We work together to identify areas where capital investment would benefit both freight and passenger.

I think it's very important, regardless of the foundation, that the communication between passenger rail and freight exist and they keep moving it forward.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

We've had Via Rail before our committee, and its leadership has cited statistics around on-time performance. On the track Via Rail owns, it can deliver 90-plus per cent on-time performance. On the tracks Via Rail shares with freight traffic, that's down near 60%, so significantly less on-time performance. Of course, as the mayor has cited, that's a major challenge in terms of the dependability of passenger rail. Could you talk about the on-time performance of Amtrak, both on shared tracks and on the tracks it owns?

[Robert Eaton]

I think we have similar statistics on tracks we own and tracks we are hosted on. On the northeast corridor, we have a very high percentage of on-time performance. Last December, it was 81% on-time performance for the tracks we own on the northeast corridor. When it comes to our long-distance and state-supported services, the on-time performance does drop. It ranges based on the host railroad as well as the region and type of service. Again, it's anywhere from 89% down to the sixties.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

In the recent Inflation Reduction Act, the Biden administration made a substantial investment in passenger rail in the United States. I believe it was over $60 billion. Proportionally that would be a $6-billion investment in Canada, which is many times more than Canada has been investing in passenger rail each year. What is that investment allowing Amtrak to do?

[Robert Eaton]

Rail in the United States received $66 billion under the legislation you're talking about, $22 billion of which came directly to Amtrak, so we're actually modernizing our fleet. We're buying all new train sets and modernizing our infrastructure so we can support passenger service. The remaining $44 billion went to the Federal Railroad Administration, where it's been key to administering grant programs and additional corridors. That opportunity is allowing both passenger rail and freight rail to get together with the FRA to identify corridors that will be new, but also to identify, through service development plans, where improvements need to be made to improve service.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

My understanding is that the fleet you're replacing was put into service in the 1970s. Is that correct?

[Robert Eaton]

It was before that, similar to the situation with Via Rail's fleet. It was in the 1970s and 1960s.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I'll turn now to Mayor Lacoste.

You may be aware that I have a private member's bill that would create a federal law similar to the one in the United States, which would give passenger trains priority on shared tracks. You mentioned that the waits that are involved on the tracks that serve your community are a big problem for passenger rail. Is that a law you would support?

[Stéphanie Lacoste]

Indeed, when people who live in Drummondville need to get to Montreal or Quebec for work, they tend to drive, because the train schedules aren't suited to their needs and they're worried about having to wait too long and arriving late to work. For those reasons, fewer people ride the train.

We're located right in the centre of Quebec, and many people who live in Drummondville work either in Montreal or Quebec City.

We need to ensure the reliability of rail transport so that, once or twice a week, these workers can get to their employers' headquarters, which are in the major centres, and then return home.

I'd like to remind you that we're located 90 minutes away from 75% of the population of Quebec. So we're a provincial hub.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Mr. Bachrach, Madam Mayor and Mr. Eaton, thank you.

Unfortunately, our time is up.

We'll need to take a break to give our next witnesses the opportunity to make their statement and answer questions.

Thank you so much for being here with us. We will suspend for two minutes to allow our next group of witnesses to set up.

This meeting stands suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting back to order.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses for the second panel. From Canadian National Railway, we have Mr. Hoang Tran, senior director, regulatory, system safety and passenger operations, and Eric Harvey, assistant general counsel, policy and legislative affairs.

From Metrolinx, we have Phil Verster, president and chief executive officer. He is joining us by video conference.

Finally, from the Railway Association of Canada, we have Marc Brazeau, president and chief executive officer.

Welcome to all of you. Unfortunately, I want to share with you that as a vote has once again been called, it looks like we will only be able to give you an opportunity to share your opening remarks with us on the record. I'm hoping that I get approval from all of you to allow us to submit questions electronically by email. We can then get your responses back in written form for the benefit of our analysts, who can include it as testimony.

Does that work for you?

I'm seeing thumbs-up, even from Mr. Verster online. That's perfect.

Do I have unanimous consent to keep going, colleagues?

Yes, Mr. Bachrach.