Transport Committee on Sept. 19th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting to order.

Welcome to meeting number 126 of the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities.

I want to remind all members before we start the meeting to read the best practices guidelines on the cards on the table. These measures are in place to protect the health and safety of our participants, most notably our translators, whom we have in the back over there.

Today's meeting is taking place in a hybrid format.

I have some general comments. I'd like to remind all participants of the following.

Please wait until I recognize you by name before speaking. All comments should be addressed through the chair.

Members, please raise your hand if you wish to speak, whether you're participating in person or via Zoom. The clerk and I will manage the speaking order as best we can.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted by the committee on Friday, September 6, 2024, the committee is commencing its study of passenger rail service and the Via Rail Canada incident on August 31, 2024.

I'd now like to welcome our witnesses.

We have three representatives from Via Rail Canada: Mario Péloquin, president and chief executive officer; Rita Toporowski, chief service delivery officer; and Denis Lavoie, general counsel.

Welcome to all of you.

You will be given up to five minutes for your remarks, after which we will proceed with a round of questions.

I now invite you to take the floor.

[Mario Péloquin, President and Chief Executive Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear before you today. Although I wish it were under different circumstances, I recognize that it is absolutely necessary for me to be here today to revisit the regrettable incident involving train 622 on August 31.

My first words today are addressed to those who unfortunately spent too many hours on board this immobilized train. I'm deeply sorry for what happened and offer my sincerest apologies to all of them.

On behalf of Via Rail's management and board of directors, I can confirm that one word sums up what happened on August 31: unacceptable.

As the fourth generation of my family to work in the railway sector, trains are in my blood. This summer marked my fortieth anniversary in the industry. It's a great honour to work for Via Rail, and I want Canadians to continue to have confidence in our trains.

Our values put passengers at the heart of our decisions, but it's clear that on August 31 we didn't live up to them.

Via Rail has therefore commissioned an independent investigation to get to the bottom of what happened. Once we have the report of this investigation, we will carry out an in-depth review of our emergency management action plan to ensure that such a situation does not happen again.

I am committed to ensuring that all shortcomings are identified and corrected quickly.

But to avoid waiting, I have also already put in place corrective measures so that we can immediately better meet Canadians' legitimate expectations of Via Rail services.

Firstly, when a train in the Quebec-Windsor corridor is affected by a mechanical breakdown or any other situation that is likely to cause a significant delay, we will assess the situation in real time and implement an evacuation procedure, if feasible.

Secondly, I have asked for an immediate review of the training requirements in particular, to ensure that all employees are better equipped for difficult situations.

Thirdly, we will be revising our communications protocol with Transport Canada officials to enable a more rapid exchange in the event of major issues.

Finally, we want to examine exactly what led to this unfortunate situation for our passengers. While we are proud of our new fleet of trains in the Quebec-Windsor corridor and are confident in the reliability of this new equipment, we are conducting a comprehensive assessment. It would therefore be premature and unwise at this stage to speculate on the root causes of the mechanical failures that affected train 622, although we know now that it was not a single failure but a series of events.

Unfortunately, the breakdown of two weeks ago reminds us of what happened in December 2022. While Via Rail successfully implemented the key learnings and recommendations from 2022, this most recent incident revealed significant shortcomings, which we are addressing.

I want to reiterate that I'm deeply sorry for what happened, and I offer my sincere apologies to all passengers on board train 622 and their families.

On behalf of Via Rail management and the board of directors, I can confirm that one word sums up what happened on August 31: “unacceptable”.

Our sole raison d'être is to serve our passengers. They are at the heart of everything we do at Via Rail. This was clearly not the case on August 31 aboard train 622. Although an isolated incident, what happened on train 622 is a serious lesson whose causes and consequences will be scrupulously analyzed to make Via Rail a carrier that lives up to our customers' expectations.

Ladies and gentlemen, it will now be my pleasure to answer your questions along with my colleagues Rita Toporowski, our chief service delivery officer, and Denis Lavoie, who is in charge of launching the independent investigation into this incident.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Péloquin.

Today we will start with you, Mr. Berthold. You have the floor for six minutes.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Péloquin, Ms. Toporowski and Mr. Lavoie. Thank you for your apology. I think the passengers deserve a public apology, which you have reiterated.

However, I must admit that, at one point during your remarks, I got shivers. You mentioned that what happened on August 31 was not the result of a single event, but of a series of events that occurred at the same time. It leaves a bitter taste in my mouth, reminding me of the Lac‑Mégantic tragedy, where exactly the same thing happened. It was not a single incident, but a series of events that occurred at the same time and that led to the tragedy that killed 47 people. I just wanted to share my emotional reaction. I did not expect to go there. This proves that, when incidents like this occur, we must take them seriously, particularly when passengers are involved. These big machines can also kill hundreds of people. Therefore, I find that “unacceptable” is a paltry word to describe incidents like this when we have no answers as to what happened.

Mr. Péloquin, you said that you were going to establish a new communication protocol with Transport Canada. How were the events of 2022 a lesson for Via Rail? How will a communication protocol improve matters from now on with Transport Canada, when it seems that the discussions between the department and Via Rail in 2022 produced no results in terms of safety at Via Rail?

[Mario Péloquin]

The 2022 incidents and the subsequent investigation helped us improve several aspects of the procedures and protocols we had at Via Rail, including the internal communication protocol and the one with the Department of Transport.

The events of August 31 showed us that, even after new measures were put in place in 2022, there were still shortcomings. That is why we immediately took measures to correct the shortcomings that we quickly identified. We also launched an independent special investigation to see if there were other aspects that we had overlooked.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Péloquin, it has been more than two years since these events took place, and the measures are still not effective.

The incident did not occur in the middle of nowhere, but along Highway 20, with buses and villages nearby. Something could have been done other than leave hundreds of people on a train for 10 hours. This is beyond unacceptable. In fact, I read the minister's comments, and he too called the situation unacceptable.

What were the first communications between the minister's office and Via Rail regarding this incident? Who initiated the communications?

[Mario Péloquin]

In accordance with the protocols we currently have in place, we follow a procedure when we see that an exceptional incident needs to be reported to the department. On August 31, internal communications were unfortunately not sufficient. Therefore, we notified the people at Transport Canada, the minister's office, the deputy minister and the Via Rail board of directors around 6:50 p.m.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

When did you first have contact with the minister's office or with the minister himself? Have you spoken with Minister Rodriguez?

[Mario Péloquin]

Yes, I spoke with the minister on the Tuesday after the incident.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

That was 48 hours later.

[Mario Péloquin]

Yes. It was early afternoon on the Tuesday.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

The incident does not seem to have been as important to the minister as it was to the passengers who experienced it.

[Mario Péloquin]

Unfortunately, I couldn't tell you how important he deemed the situation to be.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Before contacting the minister or before the minister contacted you, had you already made the decision to conduct an investigation?

[Mario Péloquin]

I feel you should know that, internally, Via Rail executives sent communications pointing out targeted shortcomings that needed to be addressed immediately. One of the things that had to be done was determine exactly what caused the incident where, unfortunately, passengers were stuck on the train for too long.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

Mr. Péloquin, I understand the processes and protocols, but I would remind you that, when incidents like this occur involving people, rapid communication is paramount. It is inexplicable that you did not communicate with the Minister of Transport that same day, that you or one of your peers did not pick up the phone to contact the minister, and that the minister, after seeing in the media that an incident like this was taking place, did not bother to communicate with you to try to see if anything could be done for the passengers. Every effort should have been made to help the passengers on the train when they were in trouble, not 48 hours later.

What lessons have you learned from the incident? Do you think more effort should be made? Should you authorize people to call you on your cellphone as soon as a problem like this arises, where a train sits on the tracks for so long?

[Mario Péloquin]

Absolutely. Via Rail executives are available at all times to receive calls or other forms of communication.

[Luc Berthold, Conservative, Mégantic—L'Érable, QC]

When did you become aware of the situation?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Berthold. Unfortunately, your time is up.

I now give the floor to Ms. Koutrakis for six minutes.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you for being with us today. This is not your first time. Welcome.

We all know that all passenger transportation companies have unfortunate situations several times a year. Whether that affects the passengers, the public or employees, they have plans to deal with all kinds of such situations. I know Via Rail has dealt with numerous incidents, probably hundreds, over the years, from accidents to suicides, train or infrastructure failures, freight train derailments, medical emergencies, terrorism, etc.

My understanding is that procedures require an immediate mobilization of everyone who can contribute to be part of the emergency team required to resolve or mitigate the problem. I also know that Via Rail has been a leader in customer service, including recovering from such incidents, and is rated by customers as providing superior customer satisfaction, which is objectively measured.

Is my introduction not true? Are my assumptions not correct? If my assumptions are correct, I'd like to know, what went wrong?

[Mario Péloquin]

Your introduction is accurate. What happened on August 31, it's important to note, was an isolated incident. We deal with situations, as you pointed out, regularly, because we operate on a network of over 20,000 kilometres across the country, with mixed traffic and so on. We deal efficiently with all types of situations every day.

To discuss a bit about what we've discovered so far that went wrong on that day, I'd like to pass the microphone over to my colleague, Ms. Toporowski.

[Rita Toporowski, Chief Service Delivery Officer, VIA Rail Canada Inc.]

Thank you.

If I may, just to begin, I wish to apologize to the passengers who were unfortunately held on that train for much too long on that particular day, August 31.

Having said that, I would like to address what we found and what we've discovered. Since 2022, we did learn some lessons. Very specifically, we realized that we needed to take better care of passengers on board the trains, to take a look at what our protocols were with alternate transportation, and to make sure we were visible, offering food and water on board the trains, as an example. Those protocols were maintained and held.

Although the communication on board the train was frequent, the unfortunate part was that the information regarding where the rescue would happen and at what time it would happen was lacking. That's what caused many issues on board the train.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but that almost sounds like what happened in December. In your testimony, Mr. Péloquin, you mentioned that. If that was the issue back then, how can it be that such a short while later, we're still dealing with the same thing, and that's communication?

I'd like to know, what broke down? If there were new protocols in place, and new communications, what happened this time around?

[Rita Toporowski]

May I continue?

Thank you.

Related to the communication, we do have a protocol in place in terms of escalation. That's where the failure was. For the team that was working on the problem, as Mr. Péloquin mentioned earlier, this incident was an isolated incident. It was unique in that we had two mechanical failures on the same train.

The first mechanical failure took about two hours to fix, at which point the train started to move again. After moving for 30 minutes or so, there was a secondary mechanical failure. Having addressed the first one, the team had to move its mindset to solving the second one. The problem-solving was around what we could do to fix that train and move it as quickly as possible.

We did make calls to look for alternate transportation. We contacted 10 bus companies. None were available.

We were in contact with CN throughout the whole time. During those kinds of incidents, we work well with them in terms of trying to come up with solutions. They did offer an opportunity to remove the train as well. Our train was closer and had a better opportunity to move that train in the future.

Regarding the communication, as I mentioned, what happened was that we were trying to solve the problem and move the passengers as quickly as possible. The failure was in not escalating as quickly as we needed to.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I am concerned about the new train. These are fairly new trains that were purchased from Siemens.

Has Siemens been helping to resolve this issue? Have they been responsive? We've paid a lot of money. Canadian taxpayers and passengers who pay for the service have paid a lot of money for those new cars. Is Siemens covering the costs incurred by Via to address the disruption and the resolution of the technical problem, and are you satisfied with their responsiveness?

I think it would be important to address that issue for the Canadian people who are watching us today.