Transport Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Susan Wright]

If the goal is to offer competition and to have competition at lower prices in a region like ours, where there has historically only been enough demand for one company, I believe the best thing you can do is support those operators with proper infrastructure and proper amenities so that they can flourish and grow.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Wright.

Thank you, Dr. Lewis.

Finally, for this round, we'll go to Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, you have five minutes, sir.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, I want to offer clarification with respect to some comments that were made by Ms. Wright with respect to smaller operators.

The fact of the matter is that operators have more flexibility on APPR and accessibility, even when we have regulations on flight and duty time. The regulations on flight time for pilots essentially give them a buffer to comply.

Regarding the flight time for pilots, they comply with any other airline because it's about safety, Mr. Chairman. That's what it all boils down to.

I guess it's somewhat subjective. At the same time, there has to be some clarity and some context in terms of the comments that were made.

I also want to add, Mr. Chairman, that to understand the feedback from northern and smaller operators, Transport Canada, as some may know, launched an initial consultation back in May of 2024. We are currently assessing that feedback. Once again, Mr. Chairman, safety will always be a top priority.

I wanted to make that clarification as well as give that information. By all means, any member of the panel that may want to give further comment, feel free.

I really want to draw down, Mr. Chairman, on the business. It's ironic, because I did have a meeting today with the Kelowna International Airport, and some of this is what we were talking about, with respect to the business of the smaller airports, strategic plans, priorities, action plans, and ultimately the opportunity for further revenue to be generated, apart from just the revenue generated from the airport operation itself. Some of that revenue is somewhat limited because of the regulations that TC puts on the smaller airports, which is what I want to drill down on.

As I've stated in the past, supply chains deal with goods but also with people. Supply chains depend on the capacity that is allowed and/or invested in the smaller airports. A lot of it is multimodal in fashion—railroad, air and water—but in this case, with air, we have to make more mechanisms available to them for more revenue generation.

First, what is impeding the airports with respect to regulations that could otherwise, if opened wider, encourage more business and therefore revenue generation on the lands and/or within the airports' business plan? Second, which regulations, specifically, might be preventing that?

I'm going to start off with Mr. Paradis because he started talking about some of those business opportunities that might be available in his area.

[Bruno Paradis]

I'll try to answer that question. I admit I didn't completely understand it, because English isn't my mother tongue.

We were talking about what might limit or stifle business opportunities. Here's an example.

Earlier we discussed the rules pertaining to the number of flight hours. For example, let's take a flight that departs from Montreal, stops first in Mont-Joli and then continues on to Gaspé. The crew can't then return the plane to Montreal. So there has to be a crew change, which really has a significant impact because an additional crew has to be added for the return trip. Consequently, it's impossible for that flight to be competitive.

We also said that regulations would have to be based on the size of the businesses. I think we need to think about that because, yes, small carriers are subject to the same rules as the big ones, but the nature of their day-to-day operations is completely different.

The other rules in place don't have the same impact. Some safety rules are normal. It's the rules pertaining to the maximum number of pilot flight hours that have really affected us recently.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Are there further comments, Mr. Chairman, from other members of the panel?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Are there any others who would like to respond to that question?

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

There are none. Okay.

With respect to what I asked earlier about the feedback that Transport Canada was receiving from northern and smaller operators back in May 2024, were there any comments on some of that feedback that members of the panel would like to provide to us?

I want to say this. When we have these studies and consultations with members of the industry, it's not the answers to us that matter; it's the answers to the analysts that matter, because the analysts will take those and ultimately make them part of the final report, and of course, from there, there will be recommendations to the minister.

Therefore, to those who are on the panel, are there any other comments that you want to make on the questions that I've asked?

With none, I'm moving on. My time's up. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I have a quick question to the members. Do I have approval to ask one simple question to the witnesses?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Yes, of course, Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, members. I appreciate it.

The question is for Mr. Paradis and Ms. Wright.

We had a previous witness who spoke to the benefits of installing aluminum runways in the north and who had given us the pros and cons of installing aluminum runways in the north versus paving. I'm wondering what your thoughts are on whether this is something that should be looked into more and whether it is something that should be perhaps considered as support for northern and remote runways.

Perhaps I'll start with you, Mr. Paradis.

[Bruno Paradis]

Are we talking about gravel runways?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, we're talking about gravel on aluminum strips. What do you think about that?

[Bruno Paradis]

I don't know the field. We have beautiful asphalt runways at our airport, but they require a lot of work, such as brushing and sweeping, to prevent ice from forming.

I think Ms. Wright can give you a better answer to your question because I don't have any expertise regarding other runway types.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

Ms. Wright, the floor is yours.

[Susan Wright]

Yes, that's been something that has been floating around for a very long time. I think, honestly, that any alternative to gravel would be welcomed in terms of finding some way to be able to operate on anything but gravel. I think the gravel is the worst.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We'll end on that note.

On behalf of all members of the committee, I want to thank you all for your patience as well as for your testimony for this very important study.

With that, I'm going to suspend for two minutes, colleagues, while the members of the audiovisual team set us up for our next panel.

This meeting is suspended.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I call this meeting back to order. We'll begin with our second round of witnesses.

I'm going to turn the floor over to the representatives of the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec.

Mr. Noel, the floor is yours for five minutes.

[Philippe Noël, Vice-President, Public and Economic Affairs, Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec]

Thank you very much.

Good afternoon.

I am Philippe Noël, vice-president for Public and Economic Affairs at the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec, the FCCQ. With me today is my colleague Laurent Corbeil, who is our adviser, public and economic affairs, and is responsible for transport and logistics-related issues.

Through its 120 chambers of commerce and more than 1,000 members, the FCCQ represents more than 45,000 businesses operating in all sectors of the economy across Quebec.

We are the largest network of business and business people in Quebec. We are also both a federation of chambers of commerce and the chamber of commerce of Quebec. Our organization is also a member of the Quebec Ministry of Transport's action group to restore regional air services.

The FCCQ believes that all the orders of government have a responsibility with respect to land use. To exercise that responsibility, it is essential that they make the regions as accessible as possible. Air transportation is in many instances the most efficient option for transporting people, particularly in Quebec as a result of its immense size.

The FCCQ feels that access to regional air transportation is essential in enhancing the vitality of our regions and promoting their economic development. That access connects them to global destinations through international airports such as those in Montreal and Quebec City.

We believe that governments would do well to adjust their vision of regional air links and regional airports by viewing them more as economic development tools than as costs.

In a context in which regional air transportation is a major concern, particularly in Quebec's regions, the FCCQ wishes to urge governments to modernize regional airports, which would thus promote access to our regions and foster the development of promising and wealth-generating projects for all Quebeckers. It is essential that we adapt and innovate so we can face increasingly stiff global competition, and these investments are necessary.

Airport infrastructure is essential to economic development in remote regions. It is also important, even essential, infrastructure in certain communities for both passenger transportation and the transport of goods by air cargo. Which is why it is important for businesses and communities to have access to frequent commercial air links for both delivering goods and transporting business people. These links are also an essential form of infrastructure for certain public services such as forest fire fighting and emergency health care transportation, not to mention the development of projects in resource regions requiring air shuttle service for mining operations, for example.

Many local and regional airports need to be modernized and developed. It should be borne in mind that regional airport authorities don't have the financial leeway to improve their services. Some chambers of commerce have suggested that government infrastructure investments should be at least equal to those made by intermunicipal airport management boards, which is not the case. Other infrastructure needs require even more funding, both to maintain runways and to improve air terminals, among other things.

The current capacity of some infrastructure actually creates occasional and seasonal limits on air service in certain regions. Runways and equipment may need repair, runways may need to be extended, and so on. These improvements could be an incentive to extend air links and thus foster the idea of a competitive market. In other cases, airport infrastructure modernization is nothing more or less than a sensitive issue in generating economic impacts in a specific region and in being able to provide citizens with emergency services.

That's the case of the Magdalene Islands airport, in particular. Since its runway is too short, cargo aircraft can't land there, which prevents Magdalen Island lobster from being exported by air. The same is true of the new emergency transport aircraft, which require a longer runway than is currently available. What's more, given the increasingly extreme weather conditions, extending the landing strip would help lower the number of cancelled flights. We have tried to make the federal government aware of this basic expectation for Magdalen Islanders, but in vain.

Businesses must be able to share their expertise and establish contacts. The obligation to spend several nights outside forces certain individuals to use another mode of transport than regional air services, which causes a loss of productivity and prevents businesses from expanding and growing when developing their markets.

Thank you for your attention and for taking our comments into consideration.

We will now be pleased to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Noël.

Colleagues, as discussed, I think we should prioritize the presence right now of the Fédération des chambres de commerce representatives to ensure that we can ask them questions.

Mr. Mayor—Mr. Spence—if you'll permit us, we would like to first gear our line of questioning to the two representatives from the Fédération des chambres de commerce, and then in about 12 minutes, we'll be able to focus on you, sir, to allow you to give your opening remarks and then have our line of questioning directed to you.

Does that work for you, Mr. Mayor? I see a thumbs-up. Okay.

We will begin with Mr. Muys.

Mr. Muys, the floor is yours. You have three minutes, sir.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm glad we're able to ask questions of Mr. Noël and Mr. Corbeil.

You articulated well some examples of the economic opportunities that exist, particularly in resource regions throughout Quebec. I also think that this has been the case over the course of this study as we looked at northern and other areas of the country. There are lots of opportunities.

One of the concerns we articulated is that there are a lot of impediments to the essential air service we need, not just to move workers and people but also to service those regions, which are going to be important to our current and future economic opportunities. There are taxes, fees and red tape in northern regions, as we heard from the previous witness from the airline.

I want to know if you could add a bit more to that, because it is important that we look at ways the federal government can invest in infrastructure and remove some of the impediments so that those economic opportunities can be seized.

[Philippe Noël]

I'll speak first and then let my colleague Mr. Corbeil express his opinion.

With regard to impediments, pilot availability is obviously a factor, apart from infrastructure, that very often comes up in comments. Groups interested in regional air transportation discuss how the federal government could make regulations to reduce delays in obtaining pilot licences and permits. The authorized number of hours should also be increased, without compromising safety.

This is currently a significant limit on carriers' capacity to provide regular and frequent connections. The business community isn't always convinced that it's appropriate to limit the authorized number of flying hours to that degree. It's thinking is that there could be a little more flexibility. There should definitely be a limit to ensure safety, but it could be more consistent with the situation and supply of pilots.

We've also discussed the possibility of providing assistance in the form of educational funding. It's very expensive for apprentice pilots to acquire a licence.

We think the Quebec government should discuss the issue with its federal counterparts. At the very least, you should consider amending the regulations to address the present pilot shortage.

That's one of the problems.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Noël.

Mr. Lauzon, the floor is now yours for three minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to the representatives of the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec for their remarks.

Gentlemen, my question mainly concerns the way you deal with all this. You briefly discussed the economy and the key role that small airports play.

What's your connection with the small chambers of commerce or regions that are under‑represented by chambers of commerce?

Where do you stand on the issue of small airports? I simply want to understand; this isn't a gotcha question.

Would you please give me a brief explanation of your role in this context?

[Philippe Noël]

That's an entirely appropriate question.

Our organization, the Fédération des chambres de commerce, represents 120 chambers of commerce located across Quebec. We frequently discuss issues with their representatives, and the chambers of commerce often come and tell us what's happening on the ground. We take note of all those comments, which come from all Quebec regions, and there is a genuine consensus on regional air transportation: The present system doesn't work.

Since that finding was revealing for a chamber of commerce like ours, we decided to conduct our own inquiry. It proved to be an ideological feat when we found that the free market doesn't work and that we would need a regulated yet competitive market to leave room for private carriers.

Although we usually favour the free market, in this instance, the system doesn't work. It has reached its limits. Which is why we supported the tendering system to assign airlines that would provide air links for regional air transportation across Quebec. The objective is to have frequent, regular and modestly priced air links without compromising carrier profitability, as far as possible.

Our position stems in particular from discussions we've had with the chambers of commerce. We also considered regional air transportation concerns and expectations, which we have taken note of.