Transport Committee on Oct. 1st, 2024

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

I'll be brief because I don't have much speaking time.

Some witnesses mentioned that one of the problems was the fact that airports that had belonged to the federal government were transferred to the private sector.

Is it still your view that one of the best things to do would be to support the private sector and find solutions to make the airports profitable and thus provide better service, especially to the businesses you represent?

[Philippe Noël]

I really want to give my colleague a chance to answer you.

[Laurent Corbeil, Adviser, Public and Economic Affairs, Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec]

We think the federal government has a significant responsibility here, as do all levels of government. They can get more financially involved in improving air transportation infrastructure and services. We know that port authorities have a lot of financial charges that they ultimately pass on to the carrier, which in turn passes them on to the user. In the end, that puts a heavy burden on users.

We believe that several solutions are possible. My colleague discussed them earlier, particularly as regards the pilot shortage. We also discussed landing charges and costs. There are solutions to these problems. For example, an aircraft could land at numerous airports to make its operations profitable. We also have these kinds of issues with labour. We feel we can provide support.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Corbeil and Mr. Lauzon.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, the floor is yours for three minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Welcome to the witnesses.

Mr. Noël, you said in your opening remarks that you sit on the regional air transportation working group that the Quebec government has established. We also heard from Daniel Côté, who sits on that committee on behalf of UMQ, I believe. He told us he was disappointed that the federal government, which was invited to sit on the committee, wasn't present. I was wondering if you, representing the FCCQ, would also have liked to see the federal government at the table.

[Philippe Noël]

Yes, we would have liked to see that. I think the federal government's presence would have been significant because of its involvement in air transportation issues.

Like Danielle Côté, from UMQ, and other economic actors, we recommend the tendering system for Quebec regional air links. This doesn't concern international air links. We're relying on a model that has proved its worth in the United States and Australia. We want there to be exclusive connections for carriers to specific destinations and for the government to offset losses. The Quebec government isn't solely responsible for that. We think the federal government should be responsible as well.

These working groups are also concerned with federal regulations and regulatory amendments, particularly with regard to pilots, as I previously mentioned. It would be a good idea for the federal government to be involved.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Our speaking time is limited. Consequently, I would like to suggest, if you have the opportunity, that you submit a brief to us that includes a list of recommendations that you would like to see implemented. That could round out your testimony.

That being said, in addition to the management boards issue, you also discussed capital investment. Many witnesses have mentioned that ACAP is slow to act, even inadequate. Other witnesses also mentioned the fact that the federal government could commit to reinvesting the money it charges for airport rents.

What is the FCCQ's position on the subject?

[Philippe Noël]

As regards airport rents, we have historically said that costs are indeed quite high. That prevented investment in modernizing airport infrastructure and ensuring that assets were maintained. We wanted to see lower rents charged by the federal government for that infrastructure.

This position stems from the fact that there were needs regarding the maintenance and development of certain airports. Sometimes costs are simply passed on to carriers and also directly to the clientele. We thought that, in the present circumstances and given the asset maintenance needs, it would be wiser to lower airport rents. That would make it possible for them to invest in their own development and in maintaining their assets.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Noël.

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval

Thanks as well to Mr. Corbeil and Mr. Noël for being with us today. I also want to thank them for their testimony.

You can log off now.

Colleagues, we can focus our attention on the mayor of the Town of Churchill, Mr. Michael Spence.

Mr. Michael Spence, on behalf of all members—

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You're right, Ms. Idlout. I completely neglected to give you the opportunity to ask questions of the chamber of commerce, and I want to apologize sincerely for doing that. I will make sure that you are given additional time to ask questions of Mr. Spence.

Please accept my sincere apologies. That's the first time that has ever happened to me on this committee.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I would give UC to allow Ms. Idlout to go first.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Perfect.

Mr. Spence, I want to thank you for your patience. I'm going to give you five minutes, sir, for your opening remarks, should you choose to deliver them. Following that, as it has been proposed by the committee, we will allow Ms. Idlout to start.

Once again, we apologize.

Mr. Mayor, the floor is yours.

[Michael Spence, Mayor, Town of Churchill]

Thank you for allowing me the opportunity to be a part of this very important discussion.

For northern communities like Churchill, air transportation is a critical lifeline. It's critical for our medical travel, food security, tourism and economic development. In our case, the issue with air travel hasn't gotten better in the past while.

We are somewhat unique compared to other communities, in that we have significant infrastructure. Our airport was originally built by the military as part of the Fort Churchill military installation. Our airport is probably one of the longest in northern Canada. It's a 9,195-foot asphalt runway capable of handling any large aircraft. Today it's supposed to serve as a public airport for scientific research, ecotourism, medical transportation, cargo and freight resupply, along with travel between Churchill and Winnipeg.

However, this critical piece of infrastructure is being underutilized. It's leaving Churchill underserviced by air for both passengers and cargo.

Churchill, as we know, is a world-class destination. It is one of the furthest-north airports connected by land to Canada's northern territories. This substandard service constrains economic growth and stunts opportunities in Canada and Churchill for northern Manitoba's indigenous and northern communities.

Airlines do not properly consider economic and community impact, especially to northern indigenous communities. In the past, Churchill served as a critical regional hub connecting the region to Winnipeg and Nunavut.

In fact, I want to take an opportunity on this point, because it's deeply important, especially after the Truth and Reconciliation Day yesterday across the country.

Churchill for many centuries was connected with our neighbours to the north. In the Kivalliq region of Nunavut, the link between my home community and Kivalliq is one of major cultural importance, bringing together families and generations of people who have worked together, lived together and looked out for one another. This traditional linkage between our communities has now been effectively severed by air travel schedules that don't factor in these kinds of traditional community linkages. As a result, historical connections with traditional cultures and trade and the land have been effectively severed.

Airport and air travel planning doesn't line up with community objectives to serve the communities' interests. This is a major concern for many people in Churchill and the north. It is an issue that factors into air travel decisions that are subject to a monopoly. Communities are often left out of airport planning. For example, often government tenders don't work well with regional and community initiatives and priorities. Tenders for cargo, medical transportation and passenger service aren't aligned with or meeting community needs.

Churchill, as you know, is an international tourism destination. Destination Canada is marketing Churchill to the world as the best place to look into the eyes of a wild bear, and it's also the beluga whale capital of the world during the summer. There is no better place to kayak with thousands of beluga whales, yet tourism operators are sometimes forced to hire private 737 jet service and ATR 72 and ATR 42 passenger aircraft for periods of the year. This creates further division in the community, as at times it's easier to get tourists into and out of the community than for local folks to book a flight to visit their grandchildren in the south.

The bottom line is that it's embarrassing to talk about our airline service, and something has to change.

As you folks are probably aware, the redevelopment of the port of Churchill and the hard work we've been doing to revive the port and the Hudson Bay Railway are finally fulfilling the promise of Canada's Arctic trade corridor. The ownership model behind this is the Arctic Gateway Group, which is made up of 41 indigenous and Bayline communities, including Churchill. This means it is a locally owned infrastructure.

Our indigenous and northern communities are a driving force behind the revitalization of the port and railway. We wouldn't be here today if we weren't doing it collectively, together. It is important for the economic activities in the north. It also helps Canada make a stronger assertion of Arctic sovereignty. All of this is possible through local leaders coming together. We took these assets back, and, together with the Province of Manitoba and the federal government, we're developing these for the benefit of communities.

When it comes to air travel, we want to be part of the solution, but communities can't solve these issues on their own. The topic of air travel being competitive in northern and rural communities is critically important. Our communities need better service. We need government and other partners to help make this happen. There are no simple solutions, but the status quo is not the answer. We need to keep these assets strong and continue to maximize benefits for our communities.

Another suggestion is encouraging more airline competition in the north by removing barriers to entry, monitoring predatory behaviours and looking for ways to provide financial support for local indigenous-owned start-ups. Local owners can respond better to local needs in tourism, as well as scientific, cultural and family needs. We can all ensure northern communities are adequately served by requiring airlines to provide daily or, at minimum, five-day-a-week service. We also need to limit price gouging, which is common.

We need to look at models that exist in other parts of the world. For instance, in the U.S. or Europe, you'll see essential air service subsidies for required service. These kinds of subsidies don't exist in Canada, but they can help make sure that communities such as Churchill and others are better served and easier to access. These types of service agreements can be tied to minimum service agreements.

In conclusion, I would like to emphasize the critical importance of air travel for northern communities in Churchill.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Mayor, for those opening remarks.

We'll begin our line of questioning today, as promised, with Ms. Idlout.

Ms. Idlout, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you so much.

I'm not too sure if the other witnesses are still here, but I wonder if I could ask my questions and have them respond with a written response at a later date.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, Ms. Idlout. I was going to mention this after the meeting.

I've spoken about it with the clerk, and we would very much like for you to submit your questions so that we can pass those along to the witnesses. I will personally ensure that you get the response you're looking for.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Excellent.

Knowing that they are with the chambers of commerce in Quebec, I want to ask them whether there are specific needs that are not being met in the indigenous communities in northern Quebec. I know, for example, that there are 14 Inuit communities in Nunavik and, I believe, about 10 first nations communities. I hope we can get, from the chambers of commerce, some sense of what the needs are and whether they could make recommendations so that we can understand what the needs are in those indigenous communities.

Michael Spence, thank you so much for joining us today and sharing some of your experiences as the mayor of the smaller remote community of Churchill. That connection you talked about with Qikiqtaaluk in my riding of Nunavut is absolutely true. My grandmother, actually, is buried in Churchill. That's how close our connections were at the time, so I understand what you're saying about that.

I want to ask you this: Knowing that Churchill only gets Calm Air air service, what is the impact of Churchill not having enough competition? What kinds of impacts do you see on the economy? What kinds of benefits could you see happening if there were more competition?

[Michael Spence]

Naturally, the challenge that we face today is the fact that we only get two flights per week during the non-traditional tourism season, such as October and November. It creates a lot of issues in terms of medical travel.

For instance, if I went to the doctor on Monday and got my blood work done on Monday—or Tuesday, for that matter—in some cases it does not make its way to Winnipeg until Friday. However, also understand that the Churchill Health Centre has a contract with a smaller air service carrier to move some of its patients and some of its health professionals to Winnipeg, as well as some of the blood work that's being done, but there are times when it's really stretched.

What's happened is that it has really affected the economy. When you only have two flights per week, it really strains the economy on the accommodation sector, the services, the people wanting to fly in and out, and the tourism industry, for that matter, that is not able to fulfill its arrangements for bookings. Therefore, it becomes really challenging. I think it really puts us back as a community, especially as a tourism destination and with people who want to travel out.

For instance, I will also say that if I am to travel on short notice to Winnipeg, the return air ticket is $2,400, and for some people, that is unacceptable. With regard to the whole aspect of generating economic benefits to the community, it is really critical that we have responsible air service at least five times per week.

[Lori Idlout, NDP, Nunavut, NU]

Thank you.

I believe that's my time for this round.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Yes, it is, Ms. Idlout. Thank you so much.

Next we'll go to Mr. Vis.

Mr. Vis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

Thank you to the witnesses.

I guess Mr. Spence is still online, so thank you, Mr. Spence, for being with us today.

In an article I was reading recently in preparation for this meeting, you talked about the need to resupply the port of Churchill as being a critical step to bringing economic vitality back to northern Manitoba. In fact, I know my leader, Pierre Poilievre, has talked about the need to reignite the ability of the port of Churchill for future exports of fossil fuels, liquid natural gas and agricultural commodities.

You have been mayor for a long time. What relationship does the port have with the airport? What could we look at strategically from a national perspective to both bring economic development to your region and empower local first nations to have a big role in that?

[Michael Spence]

One of the things we did, as I mentioned, and as I think you folks are aware, was come together as communities affected by the lack of responsible ownership of the port and rail line. That crumbled, and we took the initiative to basically put it back on track. By owning these structures, we get to see that we are investing in them. We own them. They are our lifeline.

As for other opportunities, working with the airport is critically important. As a port community—if I may use that as an example, because you touched on it—you need to have reliable, responsible, daily service to that economic pillar that really paves the way. We have to make sure that we're firing on all cylinders. We have to make sure that we're adequate in providing the services the world would like to see.

The other thing that makes a lot of sense in terms of focusing on the greater growth of a region is that we have a huge runway. As I mentioned, it's 9,200 feet long. It's owned and maintained by the Government of Canada. It's the only one in this region. The fact of the matter is that we need to make sure that we're investing in critical infrastructure so that products can come in to service the communities north of us and benefit them.

What we need is some infrastructure at the airport so that you can bring your product in by rail and then you it to Nunavut and the Arctic. This can benefit Nutrition North and the people who live there by giving them responsible price points on food as a commodity.

[Brad Vis, Conservative, Mission—Matsqui—Fraser Canyon, BC]

That's very insightful.

What recommendations would you make for this committee to consider with respect to getting the airport in a position to help the rest of northern Canada, but also maintain Canada's strategic interests in the Arctic region?