Transport Committee on Oct. 8th, 2024

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I have just one other quick administrative note.

I'm just giving notice—not moving, to be clear—this motion:

Given that, this year alone, the Liberal Carbon Tax has added $2 billion to trucking costs according to the Canadian Trucking Alliance, and that this $2 billion is passed down to consumers, raising the cost of living and making heating and eating more expensive, the committee report to the House that the Liberal Carbon Tax has failed the transport industry.

Thank you. I'll go on with my question now, if that's—

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Sure. You're just putting it on notice.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

I'm just putting it on notice; I'm not moving it. Thank you very much.

In listening to some of the testimony, I am a little bit mindful of an old Ronald Reagan quote. President Reagan used to say of liberals that if they see something move, they'll tax it. If it continues to move, they'll regulate it, and if it stops moving, they'll subsidize it.

Being mindful of that quote, before we embark on the idea of subsidies, should we not go ahead and slow down the amount of money that the federal government is taking from your northern communities through transportation otherwise?

I believe Churchill quoted the adage that if you're in a hole and want to get out, the first thing you need to do is stop digging.

I would go, first of all, to you, Mr. Beaulieu. How much does your company pay in carbon tax?

[Michael Beaulieu]

That's a great question, but I don't really have an answer for you in totality. We don't, and have not created, a mechanism to provide that degree of detail. It's something that I could ask to see if I could get back to the committee with at a future time.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I have a point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

We would appreciate that.

Could you describe what the impact on your company would be, even just anecdotally, if, in fact, the carbon tax was quadrupled?

[Michael Beaulieu]

From a retailer perspective, our transportation costs are embedded in the pricing in our stores. It's our northern communities and the residents of our northern communities who would ultimately pay for those higher costs. For our cargo contracts, whether trucking or air, there's a base rate, but there's also the fuel surcharge. We've noted that the fuel surcharge for every lane, whatever the mode of transport, has been impacted by the carbon tax.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

So a quadrupling of the—

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

Excuse me, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Just one second, Mr. Lawrence. I'll stop the time.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I don't want to take from Mr. Lawrence's time, but just for a point of clarification, the committee might want to look at areas where the carbon tax applies. There are lots of areas in the Arctic region of Canada where it doesn't apply. I'm not saying it doesn't necessarily apply to the North West Company in one way, shape or form, but a lot of the carbon taxes don't apply in those regions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Ms. Jones. Perhaps you or another colleague will have more time to speak to that and can ask that question, but Mr. Lawrence does have the floor.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Yes. No worries. Thank you.

From another member, I might have suggested that that was inappropriate, but I know that, as a good east coaster, you made an earnest clarification there. Thank you for that.

Mr. Goudie, I'm relatively new to being the critic for transportation. One thing that I have found interesting is our fee structure and how it's kind of unique for airports. Could you tell me how much is charged on average by your airport, per fare?

[Rex Goudie]

Per fare, we have the passenger facility fee of $20. I would say that's the cheapest in Atlantic Canada. Our airport terminal fees are competitive, at, I think, $222 for our Q400. Our landing fees are cheap. Again, we benefit from the fact that DND operates the airfield.

In terms of fees from the Goose Bay Airport Corporation, we have arguably some of the cheapest fares in Atlantic Canada.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

My question was not in any way to slight the airport you operate. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this. When I have consultations, and I'm sure I'm not the only member who does, the airlines blame the airports, the airports blame the airlines and so on and so forth. My question is legitimately trying to get to what percentage of that is affected by airports.

If we were to change the model, and of course Canada's model is unique, how much lift could we get from that? You seem quite well educated on the topic. If you could perhaps speak to how much that could affect fares in general, that would be greatly appreciated.

[Rex Goudie]

It's a good question. There are a number of fees and fares. The airlines would say it makes up 40%, I think, of the cost of airfares.

I want to go back to the study that was done by InterVISTAS. That was base airfares. It didn't include the fees and taxes that are charged outside of the base airfares. I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but from an airport perspective, the fees we charge from a user perspective are a bit different for Goose Bay, given that we're operated by DND and they cover the airfield.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Perfect. Thank you very much.

It's great to spend time with some good northern east coasters—salt of the earth folks.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses, Mr. Beaulieu, Mr. Andrews and Mr. Goudie.

My questions will be in French today.

Mr. Beaulieu, you're about the only one who talked about weather conditions, which are also problematic for air delivery.

Can you tell us a bit about how climate change has disrupted air deliveries in recent years?

[Michael Beaulieu]

From a climate change perspective, we've now seen several years of extreme wildfire activity across the country. We know that last year in particular, northern Alberta, the Northwest Territories and northern Quebec were significantly impacted by wildfires.

Servicing all of Nunavik and the Eeyou Istchee area of Quebec was impaired when the Billy Diamond Highway was closed intermittently over a one-month period, impacting the delivery of food for all residents of northern Quebec and Nunavik and the Eeyou Istchee, who were at significant risk. We worked diligently to redesign our supply network through northern Ontario, and we were then flying goods across the bay to service those communities instead of through La Grande-Rivière airport.

In northern Alberta, we lost a store to wildfire. It was small in comparison to the tragedy of the entire community. I believe there were over 80 homes burned in Fox Lake, Alberta, and there was significant disruption.

The city of Yellowknife was evacuated.

We've seen low water conditions on the Mackenzie River that have caused the cancellation of barges.

We've seen the erosion of foundations in some of our stores, and we are having to now invest millions of dollars in infrastructure because of melting permafrost. We've seen soft runways in places in northern Manitoba that have restricted the size of the aircraft that are able to land.

All of these things drive costs into the business and create hardship for our northern and remote communities and the folks who live there.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Wow, that's a long list.

Do you really think that a government that is currently responsible must face up to climate change by implementing the concrete measures that a government should take to reduce greenhouse gas emissions? These measures could help improve the weather.

[Michael Beaulieu]

I believe it's a real issue, and I believe government has a role to play in positively making change.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you very much.

Mr. Andrews, you spoke to us about two important topics discussed at city council. It's about affordability and reliability. You also told us about the chamber of commerce's involvement.

Can you tell us a bit about the role that city council and the chamber of commerce could play in helping us make good decisions?

What were their analyses?

[George Andrews]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Lauzon.

I speak a bit of French, but I'll switch to English to answer you.

It's a serious concern for everybody. The chamber of commerce and our council have had conversations. We're all trying to push the same way to receive the maximum benefit for our communities and our regions. Part of that is business development.

The impediment in terms of business development is the cost of air fare. If a company comes in, whether it's bringing its supplies and/or staff in or sending goods or products out by air, the cost is huge.

When I look back at the average increase for our airport, in excess of 30% since 2019, as opposed to some other ones and the national average of 9.2%, that is a concern.

The chamber is working towards that.

Reliability for us is critical. If a person comes from western Canada or another part of Canada or the world and they come into my community, and 54% of those 100 flights in the last number of days were late and some were cancelled, they sit at the airport with anticipation.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you.

My time is up.

I would like you to submit your recommendations to us so that we can append them to our files.