Evidence of meeting #131 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was passengers.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Minister, you talked about Via Rail staff and your demands of them and your expectations. We had a passenger at a previous meeting who was on that train, and he told us about his experience during those 10 hours. It was very challenging; it was difficult; people were anxious and concerned. He also talked about the skill and competence of the Via Rail staff. I ride the train as much as I can, and my experience has been that they've been caring and competent and professional, so I wanted to start my remarks just by thanking Via Rail's staff. I know they do an incredible job with limited resources.
We talked a bit about training when we had the representatives from Unifor here. I know that a lot of your government's response to Via was about how they need to do better training. The union doesn't think that's the problem. They think the problem is that they're trying to do a professional job with limited resources.
If, in the wake of this investigation you're holding, it comes out that Via Rail actually needs more resources from your government so that it can be more resilient, will you provide those resources to Via Rail?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
I want to begin by saying that resources have been a question that we, as a government, have focused on. That's why we're ensuring that we have investments in Via Rail over the course of numerous years...2021, $490 million; 2022, $354 million; 2023, $210 million; 2024, funding for a new fleet.
You can see from that that we, as a government, take this file and Via Rail very seriously. We also take the importance of service delivery seriously, but, of course, because Via Rail is operationally separate, we need to see that third party report to find out why this train experienced the mechanical failure that it did.
Apart from that, I said in my calls to Via Rail's CEO and the chair of the board that it is unacceptable for a train to be on the tracks for 10 hours with not enough food, not enough water, not working toilets. That's not a labour-intensive issue. That is a practice that they can put in place regardless of the actual training that the labourers or the employees have. If there's a request for more funding, we will consider it, but there are things that Via Rail can do right now to make sure that this situation doesn't happen again.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Minister, I wonder if after the 2022 incident.... This is the second time we've had a train break down and strand passengers. We heard a very similar message after the December 2022 incident. Was improved training one of the directives provided by the minister after that incident?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Yes. The processes were in place, but they weren't followed in 2024. Management, crew, employees will take more training. There's ongoing testing of response plans. That has already started. That's going to help us understand how well those plans are working. That's the operational level at Via Rail.
From a ministerial level and the Government of Canada level, we have a responsibility to demand better of that Crown corporation, and that's exactly what I'm doing here today.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Minister, you've talked about HFR and your plan for improved dedicated passenger rail between Toronto and Quebec City. That's Canada's most populous corridor.
I think building that infrastructure is something that we strongly support, in principle. We want to see it done publicly and in the public interest, not for private profit.
However, we haven't heard your government's vision for passenger transportation in rural Canada. It's been years now since Greyhound terminated its service in Canada, leaving hundreds of communities across the country without affordable passenger transportation options. Via Rail service in rural Canada is extremely limited and challenged by the fact that it shares the tracks with the major freight companies.
I think people in rural Canada today have fewer passenger transportation options than they have had in a hundred years.
What is your vision for passenger transportation in rural Canada? What are you willing to do as a government to ensure that rural Canadians have the options they deserve?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Thank you for that question also.
I come from rural Canada. I was born in Kentville, Nova Scotia. It is in the middle of the Annapolis Valley. We depended on different types of transportation to get around, so your questions about rural are very well taken and I appreciate them.
Let's say that Canada has a challenging geography that we as a department and as a government need to address. That is making sure that there is adequate rail, bus and transportation to access remote communities.
I have seen my honourable colleague, Mr. Chair, in a canoe in British Columbia.
NDP
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
I would like to say that we have to ensure that we are being innovative. That's why high-speed, high-frequency rail is just one facet of what we are considering for the future of this country.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Minister. Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.
Next, we'll go to Mr. Muys.
The floor is yours for five minutes, sir.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Thank you, Chair.
Congratulations on your appointment to this portfolio and welcome to committee.
I've been on this committee since the beginning of this Parliament. We've seen a lot of travel chaos in that time. When we talk about the previous Via incident in Cobourg in December 2022, we had the then-CEO of Via here before committee. I asked him whether he had heard from the then minister, your predecessor's predecessor, at the time of that and thereafter, and he had not. The answer was no.
That same holiday season, we had quite a chaos at the airports in Canada, where people were sleeping on floors and people were stranded in foreign countries. We had the heads of the airport authorities for the three largest airports in the country. We asked them if they had heard from the then minister. The answer was no.
I want to ask and give you the opportunity to respond and tell us how it will be different with you. Obviously, all of these messes have existed and the minister has been missing in action.
I would imagine that during a time of trouble and chaos, the minister would be at the command centre at Transport Canada, with all hands on deck, sleeves rolled up and getting the job done.
You have admitted that it's two big portfolios that you have. How will it be different?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
I'll tell you how it's going to be different. I've already spoken with all the airline CEOs and the rail CEOs, including the Via chair of the board and the Via CEO. That's how seriously I take this job. That's how seriously I will continue to work on behalf of the Canadian population, which needs rail service in order for us to have economic prosperity in this country, in order for us to get to work on time, in order for us to reduce carbon emissions, and in order for us to think big about what is possible in terms of connectivity in this country.
I deeply resent the implication that I am not on top of this file. The opposite is true, Mr. Chair.
Conservative
Dan Muys Conservative Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON
Thank you.
I didn't make that implication. I asked for your perspective on how you would be different.
Switching gears to airport delays, we heard from a witness at this very committee last week who said that he plans a six- to eight-hour buffer to get from his home to the Dorval airport in advance of his flight, just because of the delays at airports. Airports are federally regulated, and we know there have been a number of issues. We've heard about that. The level of airport delays is unprecedented.
We've seen these problems not just at the three or four large airports in the country but at the smaller airports. We've had a study at this committee about northern airports. There are a number of issues in the air sector.
Again, what are you doing to address that issue that's very directly impacting Canadians?
Liberal
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
We'll stop your clock, Mr. Muys. You have three minutes and 30 seconds.
Yes, Ms. Koutrakis.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
I'm questioning the relevance of the question from my colleague. It pertains to the air sector, but the minister is here before us on a specific issue with Via Rail.
I'm questioning the relevance.
Conservative
Philip Lawrence Conservative Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON
He's basing the point of order on the passenger testimony we received, Ms. Koutrakis, so it's within....
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Ms. Koutrakis.
The minister is appearing before us today to address the incident that occurred on August 31. There is a link with what one of the witnesses said, so I'll let the minister respond.
However, I want to say this, colleagues: We specifically invited the minister here to discuss that incident because we felt it was important enough to use the committee's time to address it. We have the minister before us.
Minister, the floor is yours. You have three minutes and 30 seconds.
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
Thank you. I hope I'll have time to respond to this question.
The first point I want to say is that I agree that delays are unacceptable. Delays are the responsibility not only of the airlines but also of the airports and airport authorities. We have to make sure that each one of them is carrying their weight. In my conversations with the airlines and airport authorities thus far, as well as with the airports, I have stressed the need to reduce delays. That has to happen. Post COVID, we need to see the airline sector functioning more efficiently.
What are we doing? We are working with airports, airlines and airport authorities on a regular basis to make sure we're addressing the bottlenecks. They are doing whatever is within their sphere. We are ensuring airports are sharing data to ensure better planning and traveller experience.
This is an issue that I'm glad my honourable colleague raised, and I'll continue to stay on top of it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Muys. Thank you, Minister Anand.
Next, we'll go to Ms. Koutrakis.
Ms. Koutrakis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.
Liberal
Annie Koutrakis Liberal Vimy, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Welcome, Minister, and congratulations on your new function. I always say that if you want to see results, give more work to the people who are very organized. Give it to the busiest people and they will definitely come through with flying colours. I have to tell you, Minister Anand, as a woman MP, I couldn't be prouder to have you as our Minister of Transport. I think you're breaking the ceiling for many young women and girls watching you here today.
Having said that, we know your predecessor sent a letter to Via Rail on September 4, 2024. In his letter, he asked for a certain response within 30 days.
Do you know whether Via Rail respected the 30-day timeline, and did they come back with their action plan?
Liberal
Anita Anand Liberal Oakville, ON
First of all, thank you very much for those kind words. I hadn't thought of that.
I'll move on to your question.
Let me just say that Via Rail was asked by my predecessor to conduct a third party investigation, review the emergency management action plan within 30 days, review training received by management and employees, review the communications with passengers, review and improve communication protocols and assess mechanical failures. I have spoken with the chair and the CEO of Via Rail. We have received an update from them in response to that letter, so some steps have been taken, which I'll elaborate on.
As of September 3, 2024, Via Rail implemented a new escalation protocol for its staff on board trains and its operations control centre. That protocol ensures that Transport Canada is immediately informed of disruptive events and that, if a delay is over two hours, Via Rail begins arranging alternative transportation options for passengers, like buses. In addition, Via Rail executives and employees who are responsible for operations have participated in in-person training sessions that took place in September, and these sessions were focused on emergency and crisis management plans. Via Rail has also commissioned two independent reports, one on understanding operational gaps that led to the incident and the other on mechanical failures. Both will be delivered by the end of November.
On October 7, Via Rail conducted a tabletop simulation test to ensure that its crisis communication plan was in order. That tested emergency activation and response. Another is planned in November.
Lastly, I'll just say that I have instructed Via to make changes to its communication protocol to ensure a timely explanation.
I want to summarize by saying that what took place on October 31 was unacceptable. My predecessor sent a list of demands. I have followed up with a phone call and now have received a response from Via Rail in terms of what it is doing and what it will come back with, for example, at the end of November. We still have not received an emergency action plan that provides a comprehensive play-by-play of how Via Rail will address some of the issues.
I want to say that I have given you an update of what Via Rail has done, but I'm not speaking for Via Rail. Via Rail is a Crown corporation. It is separately operated, and it is accountable. It needs to come and tell this committee and the House of Commons what it is doing and what it has done.