Evidence of meeting #134 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was wake.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Lastly, would it be possible to send these study documents to the committee so that we can attach them to our files as part of our study?
General Manager, Organisme de bassin versant de la Yamaska
I'll ask the Yamaska committee, which received our summary. If we can do so, I'll submit the documents through your colleague, Simon‑Pierre Savard‑Tremblay. We would gladly do so.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Ms. Daoust. Thank you for your time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Ms. Daoust and Mr. Lauzon.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Daoust, I know that you must leave the meeting shortly. You ended your remarks by saying that you wanted a maximum speed limit of 10 km an hour on your waterway and a ban on wake surfing. I gather that you or the Yamaska committee may be submitting these recommendations.
How do you feel about the regulatory process? Do you think that any adjustments are needed, or is the current process perfectly adequate? I'm asking you because other witnesses talked to us about this.
General Manager, Organisme de bassin versant de la Yamaska
We gave the Yamaska committee a literature review.
Sorry, but I forgot the start of your question. Could you remind me?
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I gather that you aren't responsible for the regulatory process. You simply submitted a literature review to the Yamaska committee, which takes care of it. Is that right?
General Manager, Organisme de bassin versant de la Yamaska
Exactly.
We also talked about banning certain activities. We're specifically focusing on certain parts of the 160‑kilometre‑long Yamaska River. We're talking mainly about the Saint‑Césaire, Saint‑Damase, Saint‑Pie and Saint‑Hyacinthe areas, where the river becomes much narrower.
In keeping with the comments made by the other witnesses, we made our recommendation while taking into account the width of the river and the proximity of the shoreline. Obviously, wake boats could navigate in wider areas, but in other places.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
You talked a great deal about wake boats. Could other types of boats be subject to restrictions? Should anything in your literature review be brought to the committee's attention, or was the focus just on wake boats?
General Manager, Organisme de bassin versant de la Yamaska
Our recommendation mainly concerned wake boats.
However, given the width of the waterway, the boat speed does affect the strength of the waves, meaning their kinetic energy, as I said. Basically, the longer it takes for a wave to reach the shore, the less force it generates. The faster it reaches the shore, the more it affects erosion and the various habitats.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you.
Ms. MacKinnon, I don't know whether you listened to the witnesses who spoke before you, but I assume that you did. Witnesses often do so.
Ms. Daoust also spoke about wake boats. It seems that this type of boat has come up a great deal in the comments so far. Does the National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada know about the potential impact of these types of products on shorelines? Is there any willingness to find ways to reduce this impact?
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
Absolutely. I think that we all know about this impact. Of course, in the media, we hear about certain complaints.
However, gaps remain in education, industry consultation and municipal‑industry partnerships. There are provincial boating associations. In Quebec, for example, Nautisme Québec provides many ways to educate boat owners. We want to participate in educational initiatives and work with municipalities and the industry to find solutions for both manufacturers and users. That's basically our position.
We hear many negative things about wake surfing. I've been in the boating industry for barely a year. One thing that strikes me is the lack of consultation and co‑operation with the industry. Instead of pointing out the things that don't work and saying that certain types of boats produce too many harmful effects, we should be looking at how we can work together. If we work together, I think that we can keep everyone a bit more satisfied and make fewer waves.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you for your response.
The Boating Ontario Association representative, who also serves as president of the Canadian Marine Retailers Association, stated earlier that he couldn't say whether a five‑metre or 16‑foot boat was considered big or small. To the best of your knowledge, how much would it cost in fuel to spend a day on the water with this type of boat?
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
I couldn't say. I don't have any of that information.
It depends on the type of boat, the part of Canada and the day's activities. If you use a small rowboat to take your child fishing in the middle of a lake, with the engine turned off, you don't use as much fuel as when you're out on the river or at Château Montebello. Some boaters simply drop anchor and enjoy a beautiful day on the water, while others wake surf, fish or just lounge around a dock.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Ms. MacKinnon and Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.
Next, we have Mr. Bachrach.
Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours for six minutes.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
I'm intrigued by this issue of the luxury tax on boats.
I take some of the critique of luxury taxes in general seriously. I think that is a decent point. They don't tend to raise a lot of revenue. In my view, if we're going to address issues like wealth inequality, we should make the rich actually pay their income taxes. We should prevent them from hiding their wealth in other countries. If we did that, we would raise a heck of a lot more revenue than dinging them for buying luxury boats, airplanes and those kinds of things.
I think the comment that had a lot of us looking a bit quizzical, Ms. MacKinnon, was your indicating that the luxury tax is hitting the middle class hard. We heard some comments from my friend Mr. Lawrence along the same lines. I take the point as it was intended, but I wonder about your organization's definition of “middle class” and what income level that would include.
Could you share with us what incomes would be considered middle class?
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
Most people in Canada who own a boat make under $100,000. While this tax on a boat.... The $250,000 and over may seem like a lot, but that boat lasts a family 25 to 30 years. There's longevity to a boat, you could say. If a person is making $100,000, they're not buying the yacht. A $250,000 boat is also not a yacht. It could just be a very nice pontoon that you take your family on. It all depends on what boat you're looking at and the impact of that.
It's hitting the middle class, because there are people working on boats. There are the marina folks. There's the service industry. There's everything around the tourism sector, where every local community has people depending on the boating industry and the boating season, which is very short in Canada. It's already a shortened amount of time. Now you're impacting that by reducing.... The boat sales are going down, and the luxury tax has a massive impact on that. Again, it trickles down to the supply chain. It's not just on the boat sales per se.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Sure. I take the point that there are people working in the recreational boating industry who are middle-class Canadians. I think that's a fair point.
The question was specifically about people who are buying boats that cost over $250,000, and whether those people—who are the people affected by the tax—are middle-class Canadians. I know lots of people who earn around $100,000. It's not the highest salary in Canada. I don't know any of the folks who are buying $250,000 boats.
If I may, Mr. Chair, the organization must collect very detailed consumer data. I wonder how many customers buying $250,000 boats earn less than $100,000.
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
I don't have the information on hand, but I'll make sure to follow up with the committee with that information.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.
Next we will go to Dr. Lewis.
Dr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.
October 29th, 2024 / 5:30 p.m.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
Ms. MacKinnon, you were speaking about individuals who buy $250,000 boats.
Wouldn't some of these individuals have to take out a loan or a mortgage, or refinance their property, sometimes, to do this?
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
Yes. It depends on the circumstances of whoever the boat owner is.
Conservative
Leslyn Lewis Conservative Haldimand—Norfolk, ON
These individuals aren't necessarily people who have $250,000 just sitting around. Sometimes these boats are inherited from their parents.
Are they not?
Executive Director, National Marine Manufacturers Association Canada
Absolutely. They are inherited. You're buying the boat on long-term financing, as well. The boat lasts you a very long time.
I have kids in competitive sports. My payments on my boat will be great after my kids are done playing competitive hockey, because the amount of money I pay.... It depends on the family and where they're putting their interest. It's where they want to spend that money at the end of the month, or during the summertime. Every family has decisions to make, and recreational boating is one of them. It's one of many opportunities for Canadians to get outside.