Transport Committee on Oct. 31st, 2024

[Denise Cloutier]

Municipalities operate at a very local level, as Ms. Ramacieri mentioned. In many cases, boat owners with big lake houses take over local associations working to protect the lake, so they can do what they want. The mayors of those small municipalities are not in a good position to handle issues like that.

The federal government is thinking about letting municipal governments handle these issues, but municipalities are too close to their residents to fulfill that role effectively. Coalition Navigation has always said that. Some mayors have been sued for imposing restrictions on boats.

In our view, this authority should not be given to a level of government below the regional county municipality, or RCM. They face fewer political problems and show some impartiality in enforcing regulations.

[Leila Dance, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay.

What's the best way for the federal government to fix these issues? Should the government shoulder the financial burden of that? What would that look like across the board, realizing that some lakes are more used, such as those in cottage country, compared with some northern areas?

[Constance Ramacieri]

Can I answer that?

[Leila Dance, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Certainly.

[Constance Ramacieri]

It's just a fleeting thought, because the question was posed on Monday and I have been thinking how the government would do that.

Well, the government is the Ministry of Transport. You have roads where people go at 30 kilometres per hour. You have other roads where people go at 50 kilometres, and so on, depending on the type of road and where you are in the country. It's a shared responsibility for everyone to say, “On this type of road in front of a school, I go at 30 kilometres per hour. On this type of lake, which is fragile, I go at 10 kilometres per hour.”

That's the government's responsibility. That's what we're saying. It is the government's responsibility to look forward, to look ahead and to look to the future. We are all in your hands. You are the organization that is most responsible and able to do this across the country.

[André Philippe Hébert, Director and Engineering Advisor, Coalition Navigation]

If I may, I'd like to add a few things to what Ms. Ramacieri just said.

You have to be proactive and address the issue at the source. You have to educate learners young and old—those looking to obtain their pleasure craft operator cards—a bit like the system for getting a driver's licence. People can take the test online and get their card without ever doing any practical training to learn how to drive a boat. A young or not-so-young person who has never driven a boat can get in the driver's seat of a $100,000 or $200,000 vessel, and off they go—wherever, however. If the goal is to strengthen awareness around speeding and boating etiquette, you have to go to the source. You have to train young people properly at the start.

I also think that the Safe Boating Guide should include a section on the environment. People have to read the guide when they're learning to navigate a boat or trying to get their card. There has been no mention of the environment in the guide thus far. It wouldn't cost much.

[Leila Dance, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Philip Lawrence]

We're just about out of time. You have 15 seconds left.

Thank you, Ms. Dance.

Next up, we'll return to the Conservatives and Dr. Lewis.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I thank the witnesses for coming today for this very important study.

Ms. Cloutier, I would like you to expand a bit on this. You spoke about the mandatory code for licences that should be issued. Do you believe this should be issued by the federal government, and what should it include?

[Denise Cloutier]

Yes, it's by the federal government.

Take the Criminal Code, for example. It isn't enforced solely by the federal government. Municipal and provincial police can enforce it as well.

As Ms. Ramacieri said, it's a shared responsibility. Nevertheless, since the federal government is the one currently regulating navigation, it would be better if the federal government took the lead.

How could the government go about it? The government should introduce a mandatory code. It should also be mandatory for people to take practical training and pass a practical test to get their boating licence.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

You also spoke about carrying capacity. You specifically cited one lake that had over 600 boats, when the capacity was 31.

How is that capacity determined?

[Denise Cloutier]

It's a mathematical formula based on the lake's size and depth, as well as what different types of boats need to navigate on the lake. You combine all that information for all the boats to determine that a lake's carrying capacity is x number of boats. I can't give you the exact formula off the top of my head, but I wrote an article for Québec Yachting. It refers to all the studies that have been done on a lake's carrying capacity. That's one way to determine a lake's capacity.

[Constance Ramacieri]

I'd like to add something, if I may.

The carrying capacity of any environment is the area's capacity to repair itself, to regenerate, to protect itself in the long term. It's the environment's capacity not to die.

If the environment is under too much pressure—too many boats, too much gas, too much phosphorus—the life environment dies. The carrying capacity metric is meant to ensure that the environment's ecology can return to normal, heal and renew itself by the following year. That is the idea behind a lake's carrying capacity. It's not just the number of boats. It's also the environment's capacity to return to its natural state.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I was looking to see if there was more of an objective test that people could look to, to understand how to regulate and formulate. That was the nature of my question.

I also want to ask about your reference to buying boats that are too big for the lakes. What do you propose is the solution for that?

[Denise Cloutier]

As we said, the people who buy boats should know the environmental rules from the outset. Our coalition consistently relies on those two studies suggesting that wake boats should travel at least 300 metres from the shore in waters at least seven metres deep. Those are the boats that cause the most damage. Smaller boats or those with smaller motors cause a bit less damage. Université Laval actually did a study on the impacts of different types of boats.

Navigation standards should be based on the bathymetry of lakes. We want to see municipalities come out with best practice guides, based on this research, for every lake in their jurisdiction. That way, people would know the specific rules for that lake before taking their boat out.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

I'm asking the question because I'd like to know how to regulate that. Is it that the marinas are going to say your boat is too big, that it can't operate there, or is it at the place where you're buying it? How do you operationalize this concept of ensuring that people have the right size of boat for the capacity of the lake?

[Denise Cloutier]

It depends.

Local residents will want to take care of their lake and protect it, to the extent they have the necessary knowledge. Most of the time, unfortunately, boaters don't know the environmental impact their boat has. If that information were in a code or guide that people were required to read before getting their pleasure craft operator card, they would be more careful.

Municipalities should still provide the necessary information to boaters who are passing through or visiting, or who can take their boat out just fine. Specifically, they need to know the navigable zones suited to the type of boat they have.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Philip Lawrence]

Thank you very much.

I believe we have Mr. Iacono as our next questioner.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Ms. Ramacieri, your organization has consulted stakeholders in a number of sectors, energy, the environment, education and urban planning. What stood out the most from those consultations? Was it the amount of information available, the level of knowledge people had, or the authorities' or public's desire to improve the situation of lakes?

[Constance Ramacieri]

We did not do any such consultations. I'm not quite sure what you're referring to.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Didn't your organization conduct consultations?

[Constance Ramacieri]

Are you talking about consultations related to navigation?

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes.

[Constance Ramacieri]

We didn't conduct formal consultations.

Other organizations reached out to us to participate in consultations Transport Canada was doing. We took part in Transport Canada's last three consultation processes, in conjunction with those organizations. However, we didn't engage with the public specifically for consultation purposes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

All right. I thought I read that earlier. Thank you, Ms. Ramacieri.

My next question is for Ms. Cloutier.

Your organization advocates for environmental protection, something the government is also concerned about. Do you feel that some key regulations need amending? If so, can you give us some examples?