Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Brad Thomson]

Yes, I would agree with that.

It hasn't affected the rich, as far as we can see. The main concern here is that it affected the middle class, the workingman of Canada, the working men and ladies. Some of the pontoon boats we're seeing now are over $250,000. Basically, that's just a recreational Saturday or Sunday afternoon boat. It's not something that they're going to take on a two-week vacation cruise.

For these folks who were selling the boats at the dealerships and renting the docks—like me—at the marinas, right down to the grass cutters and the boat detailers, there have been jobs lost and businesses closed, and sales of larger yachts have been going down south. It has been a burden on the industry. I just hope that there is some sort of resolution and that everybody can chime in here and something can be done to help everyone out. Let's get things rolling and moving in a positive way. Let's get the economy going. Let's sell some boats. Let's keep some people employed.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

I'll move on from there to discuss the carbon tax. We've also had testimony that it's impacting local economies and hurting small business owners and leading sometimes to the layoff of unionized workers, which has created a significant challenge.

The theory behind the carbon tax goes something like this. It's supposed to increase the cost of fuels—that's what it does—so that people are encouraged to buy alternatives. Are there currently economically viable alternatives to utilizing fossil fuels in the recreational boating industry?

[Brad Thomson]

No, there aren't, not at this time, not for recreational boating.

Obviously, a sailboat is wind-powered, primarily, but at this time we don't have nearly the infrastructure for the electric boats that are coming on board. We just simply do not have the hydro infrastructure for the charging mechanisms.

At this point, and where we are at, especially here in Turkey Point, there is no way. There is nothing. Fuel is the mainstay right now.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you.

I want to go on to the current flare issue, which, it sounds to me, is a problem largely created by the federal government. It mandates these flares. I think you said you need six. They last for five years. They need to be on every boat.

While the government is saying that yes, you have to have these flares, they're not giving any solution to what to do with them after five years. Am I correct there, Mr. Thomson?

[Brad Thomson]

Yes, you're correct.

In the past—and John can back this up—the Canadian Power Squadron would have the Tillsonburg Power Squadron and the Port Dover Power Squadron here, and they would have events here on multiple weekends throughout the summer. People could come and get information on the courses they could register for, and they could also drop off their expired flares here at the marina.

Actually, all our other marinas in the area would advertise this event. They also would have their customers bring their expired flares to our location or to another marina up the lake. We all worked together on that.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Thomson.

Mr. Gullick, would you also agree with my synopsis that this is a problem created by a mandate that the federal government is putting in place, but that it's then leaving boat owners in the lurch by not giving them any alternatives for flare disposal?

[John Gullick]

I would say yes. The mandate is there. They have introduced a way of reducing the number of flares that you have to carry, and Brad has talked about that, but even if you have electronic flares or a VHF or a cellphone with cell service, you still have to carry a certain number of flares, and they're only good for four years.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Just quickly, because my time is running short here, I don't quite understand the necessity to have flares if you're in an area with cell service. Simply having a cellphone, I think, would solve the problem, would it not?

[John Gullick]

It doesn't appear to have. They've reduced the number required by half if you have a VHF or a cellphone, but they haven't reduced the number entirely.

Your cellphone won't work at the Long Point lighthouse, just for your information.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

That's my time. Is that right, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

That is your time.

[Philip Lawrence, Conservative, Northumberland—Peterborough South, ON]

Thank you, from one chair to another.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much. I'm always looking forward to giving you more time, however, Mr. Lawrence.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Gullick, I have a few questions for you.

You've said a few times that the Canadian government should do more, especially after imposing this luxury tax. If you were to buy a boat, I guess you would understand that there's money to be disbursed. On average, anybody who buys something....

If I were to buy a Ferrari and I was planning to take it out, after a year I would have to do an oil change or I would have to change the brakes, and I wouldn't expect to pay 50 bucks or 100 bucks to get an oil change; I would expect to pay close to thousands. It's expected of me to understand that if I have a luxury item, I need to have a luxury life and money that I am able to spend. Do you agree with me?

[John Gullick]

I will leave this to Brad. I'm just dealing with flares. I'm not dealing with the luxury tax.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You talked about the luxury tax before, so I'm coming back to you, because you said when you responded to my colleague across the way that the Government of Canada imposed this luxury tax. I'm going to say—

[John Gullick]

I'm sorry, but I did not mention the luxury tax. That came from Brad. It's not in my statement.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm sorry about that. Who mentioned it? Was it Mr. Thomson?

Mr. Thomson, can you reply to that? It's the same question I asked Mr. Gullick. What do you have to say about that?

[Brad Thomson]

Do you mean about the luxury tax?

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Yes.

[Brad Thomson]

It's definitely a cost, obviously. Everybody knows their expenses. It doesn't matter if you have a—

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Do you want the federal government to pay up for a luxury item that a Canadian wants to get?

I'm going to ask you a question. Do you believe that the Government of Canada should not support the one million Canadians who have access to the dental program and should support more people in buying boats because of the—

[Brad Thomson]

What the industry is saying—and Rick Layzell mentioned it in his testimony, I believe, last week—is that a lot of the sales are being lost because a lot of the boats are being purchased south of the border.

I can't speak to your reference about dental care and all that. That's not my business.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'm just highlighting it because you're saying that the federal government doesn't do enough. If I go according to your—

[Brad Thomson]

The federal government has cost businesses the sales of vessels over the $250,000 mark. It has prevented ongoing work. Businesses have closed their doors because of this. That's what we were mentioning. That's what Mr. Layzell from Boating Ontario Association mentioned last week.