Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Then what are people doing with them?

[John Gullick]

—without doing it illegally.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

What are people doing with them, then?

[John Gullick]

They go overboard, or they're putting them in waste disposal and they end up in landfill, which is not allowed. They're firing them off, which is not allowed, or they're leaving them, as Brad has said, on the doorsteps of chandleries and marinas.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

What's the problem with that?

[John Gullick]

In terms of where they leave them, then how do those places get rid of them?

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Is there a danger to it?

[John Gullick]

Yes. We're talking about explosives here. When they start to weep.... Quite literally, in the last few years, I've had two instances when I've had to call the OPP and ask them to send the bomb squad to a boater's residence to deal with flares that were starting to weep.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis, and thank you very much, Mr. Gullick.

Mr. Lauzon, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to thank all the witnesses for agreeing to testify. They are sharing a lot of new information with us, and it is very enlightening.

I'll start with our friends from Quebec.

Mr. Bélanger, you told us about the Richelieu River and the municipalities you represent.

I'd like you, first of all, to tell us about the collaboration you and your organization have established with the municipalities and what your conclusions are based on.

[André Bélanger]

This is a major collaborative approach. Municipalities trust us because we stand up for the river. Our goal is really to protect the river.

We also monitor water quality, for example in the case of the enclosed swimming area in Belœil.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

That's fine, thank you.

You told us that 70% of boaters were asking for changes.

Can you elaborate on that?

[André Bélanger]

In fact, we mapped out access to the river, because elected officials wanted to develop access for types of boats other than pleasure craft.

What we have seen—and it was actually a nice surprise—is the significant interest, even for marinas, in participating in a collaborative approach that would involve access for other users rather than just motorboat enthusiasts.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Okay.

We're talking about canoeing, kayaking and other activities, such as scuba diving.

You piqued my curiosity when you said that implementing your recommendations would be complicated.

Have you and the municipalities started the process provided under the Canada Shipping Act to come up with a regulatory framework?

[André Bélanger]

We did take part in the implementation of regulations in the Saint‑Marc‑sur‑Richelieu and Saint‑Charles‑sur‑Richelieu region, but it was at the end of the process.

In that specific instance, the process was completed, but there was opposition from some user groups, which led to a situation where everything could have collapsed and failed.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Actually, I wanted to talk to you about the opposition that has emerged. Do you ever worry about private clubs being set up in those municipalities? These clubs would use the law to impose limited access on users, resulting in user costs. Overnight, everyone would become great protectors of the river without having any real knowledge of what is at stake.

The conditions imposed by these clubs can give rise to exorbitant costs. I'm thinking in particular of the obligation to wash boats, both inside and outside, before accessing the body of water. I don't want to minimize the effects of not washing a boat; that's not my intention.

However, some clubs charge as much as $450 for launching a small boat. This has a negative impact on tourism.

Could you tell us more about that?

[André Bélanger]

We're moving away a bit, though, from the federal government's responsibility. The respective responsibilities of the federal and provincial governments could become complementary when it comes to allowing municipalities to regulate the type of boats on the water. The aim would be to prevent the emergence of these private clubs.

Part of the responsibility here lies with the Quebec government. This is the question of access. However, the complexity involved in setting up regulations prevents municipalities from intervening with the diligence and flexibility required to reconcile the protection of the water body with what we would call the capacity for social support. What do groups dedicated to environmental protection wish to see?

We mustn't forget that, when we talk about bodies of water, we have to take into account both riparians and municipalities. The latter represent all citizens.

In some cases, privatization may indeed take place.

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Bélanger. We'll come back to that later, if we can. You've opened doors to other interesting topics.

Mr. Rennie, thank you for your presentation. It's always a pleasure to welcome university representatives, because academics base their views on science and evidence. You mentioned something very new today. We've never heard of it.

Criteria were mentioned, such as the 30 kilometre-per-hour speed limit and the requirement to stay no closer than 300 metres from shore. We also talked about the waves caused by boats with strong wakes and big boats.

From your side, you talked about the harmful effects that the accumulation of small waves on a large scale can have. This is a new argument for us.

Can you tell us more about it? How are small waves measured, and why did you conclude that their accumulation could cause environmental damage?

[Dr. Colin Rennie]

Thank you.

Just to clarify, we did measure boat wake waves from pleasure craft, including wake boats and the cruiser, that were up to 15 centimetres. I wouldn't necessarily classify those as small waves. When they hit the bank, you could see that they stir up the sediments quite a lot.

If you tried to measure the bank recession from one of those waves, it would not be measurable; it's too small. You do have to see it over a period of time, which is why I surveyed the bank both this year and last year, and we'll do it again next year. In fact, we've looked at satellite imagery. We've seen that it's been receding over a couple of decades at about the same rate.

Does that help?

[Stéphane Lauzon, Liberal, Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC]

Yes, that does help. Thanks.

Mr. Vermaire, you gave us some statistics, including the growing number of boats in the marine industry. You said that 18,400 new boating licenses had been issued. Since each license is linked to a boat, that's a lot of boats.

You told us about an increase in boats, but since when has this considerable increase been evident?

[Dr. Jesse Vermaire]

Thanks for the question.

That was sort of during the COVID lockdown period, basically from 2019 and onward. We didn't have data from before that. We're working on compiling that as well.

There's this perception that the number of recreational boats increased during COVID as people....

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you very much, Mr. Lauzon.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, you have the floor for six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank the witnesses for being here today.

I will now turn to the representatives of the Fondation Rivières.

This is our third meeting on this study. We've had the opportunity to discuss the regulatory process on several occasions. Many people have told us that large-wake boats, in particular, are a major source of irritation. However, I'd like to raise another point.

In Quebec, trucks are not allowed on all roads, nor are scooters, whether municipal roads or highways. Drivers also know that school zone regulations and speed limits must be respected. So there are rules in place. This is not the case for boaters on a river or lake. There are no rules, unless you take steps locally.

Does this situation seem normal to you?

What would be the solution to remedy this shortcoming?

[André Bélanger]

We could put signage in place, for example. In addition, municipalities have the power to create reserved lanes for certain types of boats. In fact, this should be recommended by default. It's important that the right boat sails in the right place. That's important.

Excuse me, but I've lost the thread a bit.

Could you rephrase the question?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Should there be a national regulatory framework?

I think you mentioned this in your opening remarks.

What should this framework be based on, and how should it be established?