Transport Committee on Nov. 5th, 2024

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

You mentioned the increase in turbidity in bodies of water, which is linked to the passage of a boat. Does the cumulative effect of waves, for example, represent a linear relationship or one that can be exponential?

Can you give us an idea of the curve that might represent this relationship?

[Dr. Colin Rennie]

I didn't get that. Did you ask how I know the turbidity related to the boat type? What's the key to the question?

Could you repeat the question, please?

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

How would you qualify the curve, the cumulative...?

[Dr. Colin Rennie]

Let me say it's almost linear, but it's a slightly increasing fit. In other words, as the waves get bigger, the turbidity increases are even larger, to some extent.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

Thank you, Dr. Rennie.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach. The floor is yours for two and a half minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll pick up where I left off in talking about the flares, because it seems like the kind of problem that should be easily solvable.

Here you have a product that you don't want to see ending up in trash cans or on the beach at marinas. What we need is some leadership, and we need some sort of program to ensure that these are disposed of properly. When you buy tires, you pay an eco fee on top of the cost of the tires, which allows you to take those tires back to registered facilities, which are compensated for the task of collecting those tires and disposing of them properly.

To both of our witnesses who spoke on this topic, would you support moving toward such a system, which would require regulation but wouldn't necessarily require a subsidy through taxation of the non-boating public? It could be financed by the users of the products.

Is that something you'd support?

[John Gullick]

I would say yes. It's something that we've talked about at the Standing Committee on Recreational Boating at Transport Canada for a number of years, but I think an intervention by the government is required to make that happen.

However, in the meantime, we've still got this program, and even if you were to introduce a fee that goes along with the flares that are sold today, what about the flares that have been sold over the last 50 years? We've been collecting flares that quite literally have come from the World War II era, and there's no fund to pay for those.

If you're going to do something, I would applaud, but I think that while the introduction of a service fee comes into place, there needs to be a balance against an effort like ours, which will actually collect any flares from any boater coast to coast to coast, regardless of their age and type.

[Brad Thomson]

I support the power squadron's ideas from the past as well, because right now I really do not have a safe place to store any more of these flares, and we find them weekly now that we're in our off-season. It just becomes a danger and a hindrance. I keep them away from my staff, but it is a very dangerous situation that we're in here.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Next we have Mr. Muys. Mr. Muys, the floor is yours for five minutes, sir.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

Mr. Thomson, Turkey Point Marina is actually only about 45 minutes from my house. It's a beautiful part of Ontario, and I've had the pleasure of being in that area many times over the years as a young kid and also more recently.

You mentioned that you have up to 1,200 boats in and around your marina at the summer peak. It struck me, because some witnesses at this committee last week indicated that on a lake that has a surface area of about 102 square kilometres, the maximum number of boats that should be allowable is 31.

I wanted to run that by you and see what you thought about that. Does that make any sense at all?

[Brad Thomson]

We handle and we store boats, so on any given evening, there are approximately 750 boats in the marina. That's how many docks we have that are able to house boats. Then there are 127 cottages that also have slips at their properties that can use our channels to access Lake Erie, and we have the boat ramp, so yes, on any given Saturday, on a nice day we'll have 1,200 boats.

I'm not sure.... I don't know anything about that study, sir. Thanks for the question, but we can certainly handle our boats. Mind you, they're respecting waterways and traversing the channel slowly.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I was just trying to draw the comparison that obviously, at that rate, it was 3.3 square kilometres per boat. If you were to extrapolate that based on your volume of boats, you'd cover a quarter of Lake Erie, so that makes no logical sense.

You mentioned that over the last.... Let's maybe look at the last three seasons or three years, so 2022, 2023 and 2024. Do you have any specifics on the data or the number of boats or traffic or days of use that you've had, to draw that visual as to the curve of use?

[Brad Thomson]

The curve of use in our area, basically, is June, July and August. Once we hit Labour Day, it drops. We were very busy during the COVID years. Coming out of the COVID years, it did slow down a little bit, but those summer months are our busy curve.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

You indicated some of the costs associated with boating that are impinging upon use. Are you seeing, in 2024 and in this past summer versus previous summers, maybe less time on the water or less use? What are you seeing as the impact?

[Brad Thomson]

We're definitely seeing less use in terms of distance travelled. Absolutely, that is a fact for boaters out of our marina. They're not going as far. They're not taking the trips to Erie in Pennsylvania, or Windsor or Buffalo or Leamington or Fort Erie. They're staying local and—

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Why is that?

What are the factors that are contributing to that?

[Brad Thomson]

It's basically cost. Our boaters are struggling right now, and the price of fuel.... Also, just as with everything else , it doesn't matter if you have a car or whatever: You have insurance costs. The cost of recreational boating has gone up. The fuel costs have gone up. The cost of purchasing boats has gone up. It has affected them, and they're just not going as far.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Among those costs, I think you've indicated the carbon tax and the luxury tax. There have been many other cost factors. Is that correct?

[Brad Thomson]

Yes, that's correct. The carbon tax is probably the biggest one that we hear on a weekly basis when the people pull up to the pumps. To be honest with you, they do complain about the price of fuel.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Thank you.

To recap, obviously the carbon tax and the price of fuel are having an impact on the length of trip, on the boating industry and on the volume of business that you're seeing at your marina. We know that we can extrapolate that to other boating areas of Ontario and in the country.

I thank you for your testimony, Mr. Thomson. On behalf of the committee, I just want to apologize for the disrespectful way in which you were treated by some of the members of this committee in the last line of questioning.

[Brad Thomson]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Next, we'll go to Mr. Badawey.

The floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'm going to direct my questions to Mr. Thomson.

Mr. Thomson, first of all, I want to say thank you and congratulations. I know how your marina operates. Greetings from down at Sugarloaf Marina harbour down in Port Colborne. A lot of people are coming along Lake Erie because of people like you and the operation you have, as well as the other operations along the north shore of Lake Erie. Thank you for that.

My questioning is going to go more toward Mr. Thomson and what we can do for you. Of course, “we” means the federal government, but also in partnership with the province and the municipal government. I'm also the co-chair of the Great Lakes task force, so a few of my questions are going to be relative to the environment, which I'm going to start off with.

On the environmental footprint, the environmental impact that you have on the lake, does the marina take any measures to protect Lake Erie's water quality? Are there any green initiatives planned for the marina?

Finally, with respect to the environmental aspect, is there any marine life protection as it relates to the wildlife and fish habitats in your specific area?

[Brad Thomson]

There are, absolutely.

Actually, MacDonald Turkey Point Marina is an elite “clean marine” member in good standing of Boating Ontario. We are always cleaning our waterways and picking up debris. We always get a lot of floating debris and whatnot, as well as garbage—believe it or not—from the land that ends up in our waterways through storm drains and whatnot in the area. We do have a big initiative.

We also work very closely with the Erie Bassmasters. We're always doing shoreline cleanups. Also, all of our tournament events here are involved with the Long Point Bay Anglers' Association. They're all catch-and-release bass tournaments. I believe there are eight or nine now out of our marina.

It's in our best interest to take care of nature and take care of these fish and wildlife in our area. People come to see and respect that, and we have to do our part to respect it as well.