Transport Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2024

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Ms. Olsgard, you talked about how the risk assessment was wrong because it didn't take into account how this dock is used in this community. Could you describe in a bit more detail how the risk assessment should have happened had Transport Canada been doing their job?

[Mandy Olsgard]

As I said, similar to every EIA risk assessment I've reviewed in the oil sands region in the past 15 years, pathways were excluded based on the consultant's discretion of how the land was used.

The consultant looked at Health Canada guidance and worked through the guidance. It was really difficult for this region, knowing that it was Millennium EMS Solutions, which supports oil sands risk assessments. It does a lot of work in Alberta. The consultant would have had to almost actively ignore that indigenous people live in Fort Chipewyan to designate it commercial and exclude those pathways. I can't put it any other way.

In my professional opinion, I would expect the Alberta Society of Professional Biologists, if something like this came up, to look into how I conducted this study. I think APEGA would do the same.

[Laila Goodridge, Conservative, Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mrs. Goodridge.

Next we'll go to Mr. Badawey.

The floor is yours. You have five minutes, sir.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

First off, I want to say thank you to you folks for coming out today.

I hear you. You've been going through this for almost three decades and through many governments with their full knowledge. All governments had knowledge and unfortunately didn't act as they should have for those three decades.

I was a mayor of a community for 14 years that had a similar problem. You might have heard about the Inco contamination in Niagara that plagued our community. When I was asked as a young mayor at the time what I was going to do about it, my response was that we were going to focus and get it done. Simply put, as I did as a mayor then, as an MP I would suggest we do the same—that we focus, get to work and deal with it, period.

The process we used back then was beyond a site-specific risk assessment or an EA. An EA is basically a history lesson, so we got a bit more granular and did a site-specific risk assessment, but it was such a big plume area and there was so little knowledge in the science of the recognized CFCs that we did a community-based risk assessment. This might be the case in your community, because it takes everything into consideration. It takes human health into consideration. It takes phytotoxicology into consideration. It takes into consideration everything from plants to water to every possible element that might be affected by the CFCs that are recognized. Then it establishes a science on the recognized contaminants of concern, and beyond that, based on the land-use planning within a community and what's going to go where, it addresses the PPM level, the parts per million level, that would be established through science. Of course, following that would be remediation.

The most important part of that whole process was that it was collaborative. It was with the community. It was dealing with the scientists and consultants who were hired to come on board. There were two or three of them—one to do the work and the others to peer review. I find that part important too.

Kendrick, you and I talked about that earlier with respect to our commitment. You can rest assured that you have it from this government and from Transport Canada.

My question will be for Ms. Olsgard.

Ms. Olsgard, with respect to next steps and the establishment of a more focused community-based risk assessment, in your experience, would that cover a lot of what we're talking about in a more disciplined and structured manner?

[Mandy Olsgard]

Yes. That is the simple answer.

Me and other colleagues supported ACFN and MCFN, which are sitting here today, on a multi-year research program, and they've developed indigenous-use surface water and sediment water-quality guidelines that consider traditional land uses, medicinal plant use and consumption of water from any water body in the Athabasca region. In my work with the Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation, we're developing integrated environmental human health risk assessment methods and establishing guidelines for medicinal foods.

These three communities together are very advanced in how they've used science and braided it with their knowledge and informed science to move it forward in the region through interactions with consultants like me and with governments and industry. That's why I said that it's shocking to me that a risk assessment like this could happen in the region. It doesn't need to going forward. The methods are established. We know how to do collaborative, community-led research that these communities can lead.

I was a bit taken aback by the minister's letter that said they had already hired a consultant. A few lines down, it says that they've selected a consultant from the pool of government consultants. That could still be done collaboratively if you had scientists who have worked with indigenous communities and know how to integrate traditional knowledge into western science methods, but not having any information on that I thought was an interesting approach given why we're here today.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Chief Adam, do you find that this process, although terrible...? Again, I can relate. I've been there. I lived pretty much the entire first part of my public life dealing with an issue like this that dramatically affected the community.

Do you think, as bad as the process may be, that some good things can come out of it? We could leverage the process to, for example, establish an emergency measures plan and establish economic development possibilities and opportunities with respect to where you're located at the dock. Other infrastructure could be put in place, recognizing what would be beneficial to the community based on the resources you have available to you.

[Chief Allan Adam]

For dealing with the issue of retrofitting the dock, cleaning it up and handing it over to the community, the community would do a lot better with it and would understand it. You have to remember that the dock was designed for the sediment to come in, because it creates an eddy. Anybody who's familiar with water knows that when an eddy is created, all the sediment starts to go inside. That's what we've collected over the years, along with boating issues and contaminants from a barge that was left unattended, which Transport Canada knew about. It leaked in the area for a number of years.

What I don't understand is this. If Transport Canada was so adamant about giving us the dock and turning over the liability risk to us, why couldn't it just build us a permanent road, which is only 32 miles of construction? We would have access out of Fort Chip.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thanks, Chief.

We do have the minister coming here for the next meeting. I don't want to speak for her, but she's going to have a lot to say, I assume and expect. You can rest assured that...as I said, let's get to work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Next up is Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Go ahead.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You said earlier that you ended up receiving a letter this morning from the Minister of Transport's office.

It's obviously strange that you would get the letter today, the very day you were meeting with the committee. It didn't come to all of you the same way. It wasn't sent to all of you directly.

The committee members did not receive the letter. Since we don't have it in front of us, it's difficult to comment on it or ask you questions about it.

Would you be able to provide a copy to the committee before we meet with the minister? That way, we could ask her about it when she appears before the committee on Thursday.

[Chief Allan Adam]

We have a copy of it right here for you.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

All right. Thank you.

I have another question for you.

If I understand correctly, the wharf site is contaminated because a Transport Canada barge was left sitting there for years. Do I have that right?

Can you tell us more about how the contamination happened?

[Chief Allan Adam]

We also have the contaminants concerns and the health and environmental concerns written in that letter.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

You were looking through your papers, so I'll repeat my question.

Can you tell us more about the circumstances that led to the contamination?

How was the wharf contaminated? If I understand correctly, the responsibility lies with Transport Canada, which left a barge sitting there.

Can you give us more information on that?

[Chief Allan Adam]

In 2020, Imperial Oil had a spill. We raised the issue of the contaminated water then. In 2022, we were evacuated from the community because of a wildfire. We used boats and planes. With the boats at that time, we had a hard time evacuating people. We knew then it was an issue and that if it ever occurred again, we were going to have a problem.

In 2023, when the fire broke out in Fort McMurray and surrounding areas, because the Site C dam was filling up its pond for hydroelectric, it drained the water into the Fort Chip community. We raised the alarm and stated that if we were to ever have an evacuation again, our people would not be able to evacuate in a fast manner to a safe distance. We raised the issue about the big dock. We said that if Transport Canada doesn't do it, we will do the dredging ourselves. That's when we were told that if we did it, we would be incarcerated.

Once we found out everything, Transport Canada told us to go ahead and do it. When we were given permission to do it, we hired a contractor. When we hired the contractor, we found out that all the studies were done, and they said they couldn't touch it because there were too many contaminants there.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next we'll go to Mr. Bachrach.

You have two and a half minutes, sir.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The reports the government eventually produced showed that contaminants like arsenic, nickel, benzene and hydrocarbons were present on the site. These are known to cause all sorts of medical conditions, as you know, including cancer, liver failure, autoimmune diseases, leukemia and keratosis.

Could you speak to whether people in your communities have died from conditions that are linked to the specific contaminants that were found at the big dock site?

[Tammie Tuccaro]

I don't even have a number, but I'm going to say that at least 90% of the people who have passed away in our community, for as long as I know, have had some sort of illness that would be linked to this, to be honest.

We have the odd suicide or old age death, but for the majority of people—it ranges in age from children to elders—who are passing away, it's yes.

[Chief Allan Adam]

On that note, my father-in-law passed away from an aggressive cancer. I came to speak to the committee about a year ago on the Imperial Oil file. Since then, he has passed on, within six months of knowing that he was infested with cancer. My dad also passed away from stomach cancer. It's a known occurrence.

It's hard to see this as parents, and to see your parents pass on before you. Looking at your grandchildren and at all of the autoimmune diseases they have and not knowing where that's coming from is stressful enough for us.

We just want them to correct the problem.

[Tammie Tuccaro]

I would like to add that the reason I'm here and Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro is not is that his mother was recently diagnosed with terminal brain cancer. She's in the final weeks of her life, and he needed to stay home to be with her.

Right there, that just brings it so much closer to home. It is for all of us. It's close to home for all of us in every aspect.

[Kendrick Cardinal]

I just want to add this real quick. That's why it's very important that we advocate for Minister Guilbeault to conduct the health study that he said he was going to do and to get assistance from the parties involved to make sure that's followed through on.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Mr. Chair, are we going to get one more round?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

We are indeed.