Evidence of meeting #141 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
Regardless of that situation, there is still no communication with the nations on whether they're going to fix the dock or not. There is still no consultation at all.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you very much, President Cardinal and Councillor Tuccaro.
We'll now turn the floor over to Monsieur Lauzon.
Mr. Lauzon, you may go ahead. You have five minutes.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'm sympathetic to what you've been through, and I appreciate everything you've shared with us today.
When something affects our children, our families, it's personal. This isn't a partisan issue. It's about finding solutions to fix this.
Mrs. Goodridge mentioned some key dates, in particular, reports from 2017 and 2024.
I'd like you to talk about a year that was very important in this whole process. I'm talking about 2013, when the contamination was identified. Were you aware? Were you able to communicate with the Canadian government in 2013, the year that the contamination around the wharf site was detected?
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
On behalf of the Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation, there were no communications. I can't speak for the other nations, but I know that for our nation, there was absolutely no indication of any communications in 2013...to the last implications we had.
Liberal
Councillor, Mikisew Cree First Nation
I'm also unsure if any communication was made at that time, as I'm newer to office. That's something we would have to look into.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Can you look into that and send us the information if it's possible?
December 3rd, 2024 / 5:55 p.m.
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
I can speak to that matter, because I became the chief in 2013.
At the time, former minister of environment Peter Kent, along with the former minister of transport, did indicate that they wanted to give the dock to the community, but there was no mention, at any point in time, that it was contaminated, even back then.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
That's part of my next question about the transfer of the infrastructure.
Do you think that at that time, they should have told you about the possibility of the contamination when they asked to transfer the dock?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
Yes, they should have notified us right away, and they should have notified us about the remediation plan. It should have been put in place, but nothing has been put in place. There is no remediation plan whatsoever, other than giving the responsibility of the big dock to the community so that all liability risk will be taken away from Transport Canada.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
I'm not sure I understood that. Did you have the chance to meet with the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, Steven Guilbeault, in Fort Chipewyan on August 7 of this year? Did any of you meet with Steven Guilbeault?
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
Yes. Three leaders—me, Chief Adam and Chief Billy-Joe Tuccaro—had the liberty of—
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
Was there a minister directly there on the site?
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
Yes, Minister Steven Guilbeault was there.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
In your discussions, Mr. Guilbeault said that everyone has the right to live in a healthy environment.
Was any money put towards studies to assess the situation in your communities in relation to the oil sands?
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
It was not specific to the big dock but specific to a health study for the community of Fort Chipewyan because of our ongoing requests. It was for the cancer rates. That was why he committed to $12.5 million, I believe. Is that right?
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
It was a little more than that, but that's okay.
Like my fellow member, I'm from the municipal world. I, too, had to deal with contaminated water situations. It always comes down to the bylaws. Municipalities have bylaws for zoning and infrastructure.
How did the municipality zone the area where the wharf is located given its potential use? Was it zoned for commercial or residential use?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
There is no zoning, and there's nothing to it. Nothing at all has been registered as to what it's listed for, other than the fact that people need it for supplies coming into the community. It's just a drop-off as far as Transport Canada is concerned. They don't look at it as recreational use by the community. They overlook that issue. They look at it only from the point of transporting goods from A to B.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
You said that you've used that space for three decades, that all families use it, and there's a park beside it.
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
I'm 58 years old. That dock has been in the same location since long before I became available here on this earth in 1966.
Liberal
Stéphane Lauzon Liberal Argenteuil—La Petite-Nation, QC
The closest I've been is Fort McMurray. I've never been there, but I used to go see what is over there. Thank you.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Lauzon.
Thank you very much, Chief Adam.
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, we now go to you for two and a half minutes.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
First, I want to say that I will be passing on all the documents you gave me earlier to the clerk, so all the committee members have a chance to look at them before the next meeting.
Ms. Olsgard, the first nations want to be able to use what is there, but they also want the site to be decontaminated. Chief Adam could have been put in jail because he said he wanted to dredge the area.
Given your expertise as a toxicologist, I'd like to know whether it's possible to dredge the area in a way that ensures protection from exposure to toxic substances and contaminants? Is it possible to dredge and decontaminate the area at the same time?
I am inclined to think so, but I'm not an expert.
Senior Toxicologist, As an Individual
I don't do remediation, but I develop remedial objectives for them. If you look in British Columbia, in Vancouver, they dredge the harbour almost every year. When you undertake dredging activities, there will be resuspension of sediments and increased risk during the remedial activities, and signage is put up. That's part of the process.
In this case, a risk assessment was done to inform remedial options. The remedial option based on the risk assessment was that remediation was not required. We've discussed a lot today about why that happened, and it's because the human exposure pathways were not considered.
The first thing that would need to happen at the big dock is understanding the source of the contamination to the sediments. This is downstream of a naturally occurring oil sands deposit. It's downstream of one of the largest developments, with effluents going into the river, and then it has local contamination from the wharf. You'd have to characterize and figure out what the sources are and then determine the most appropriate way to remediate, given that you're going to have a continually ongoing source from the natural oil sands and from oil sands development. This could be a situation where you have to remediate consistently or have some mitigation put in place to treat incoming waters and sediments from the lower Athabasca River.
I'm sorry; I'm not trying to contradict leadership here, but it's a complex situation where you have natural and anthropogenic factors that are contaminating the sediments. The soil and the groundwater are local and easy to remediate. The sediments in the lake are a different issue that's going to require a really robust environmental site assessment, remedial option planning and then a remedial plan to protect everyone who uses the lake and the beach area.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
If I understand what you just said correctly, cleaning up the site doesn't mean it won't become contaminated again if the source of the contamination isn't dealt with.
Is that correct?