Evidence of meeting #141 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was community.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
I don't know if anybody knows this, but I'm also a city councillor for Fort McMurray and the regional municipality. To my recollection, from questions pertaining to this, we were not notified. I can confirm that.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
I ask because it makes sense for the municipal authority to be made aware.
You mentioned that discussions were under way to transfer ownership of the wharf. Who would take over the wharf? Would it be one of your nations or the municipality?
Also, did the department commit to cleaning up the wharf before turning it over, or would it be transferred as is?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
In 2013, when I visited Ottawa on numerous occasions, the big dock came up at our table. At the time, Transport Canada wanted to give it to community members—both the Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation and the Mikisew Cree First Nation.
We were down here on other matters, and it was brought to our attention that Transport Canada wanted to do away with the big dock. They wanted to get it off their books, but to do so, they asked the first nations if they wanted to take on the responsibility and liability of the big dock. They were going to give us $25 million to fix up the dock so we could use it and make sure that everything was going well, and from there on in, it would be up to the community to fix the dock. By choice, we said, “No, that's Transport Canada's position.” That's why Transport Canada still has it today. We're telling them that they're not going to get rid of that dock as long as emergency situations arise from it. It's our way out of the community.
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you.
I assume your concerns and frustration have to do with the wharf situation we're talking about today, but I assume you're also extremely concerned over the seepage of millions of litres of contaminated water from the oil sands.
Does your community feel as though it's being hit from all sides? How much of a threat is the wharf situation versus the water contamination from the oil sands?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
If you did not hear my colleague Tammie speak about the issue if nothing is done.... The community uses it. The community uses the big dock every day eight months out of the year when there is water. No matter what, even on a windy day when you can't put a boat on the dock itself, people will go down to the dock to look at the big lake. Kids would constantly swim at big dock.
When your Minister of Environment and colleague Mr. Guilbeault came to Fort Chip back in August, there were kids swimming in the water, and I had to tell them to stay out of the water because it's contaminated. Why am I doing the deeds of Transport Canada?
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
I want to add that the effects of upstream activity and the contamination down at our big dock prove Chief Adams's statements from previous comments. They show the surrounding contaminants and the environmental racism happening in our community and how much communication and collaboration are being done to nullify the destruction of our homelands.
It's not only that, though; it's taking away our cultural heritage. The impacts that the oil sands and the contamination at the dock have administered to our community have taken away the cultural aspect of going fishing. Fishing was a very big piece of our community in Fort Chipewyan. It was the heart of the Peace-Athabasca delta. The pioneers were there. This has really impacted our community. Not only is it another addition to the impacts that our community is struggling with, but it just goes to show what's really heavy in our hearts.
Bloc
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, unfortunately, you're out of time.
Thank you.
Next we'll turn the floor over to Mr. Bachrach.
Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to our witnesses for being here today.
This must be an infuriating situation, and after listening to your opening statements, I can only imagine what it would be like to know that this contamination exists, that your communities are exposed to it on a daily basis and that the government has known about it for a long time and didn't tell you. I know that conversations about the divestment of the dock have been going on since 2013, but this issue really hit the news at the beginning of October, I believe, to the point where Minister Anand, early in her new mandate as Minister of Transport, flew to the community to discuss it. I'm sorry; I got that wrong. She hasn't been to the community. The previous minister had been to the community.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Okay, that's my mistake. There was a telephone call. There was a meeting with the minister. Obviously, the government is all of a sudden taking this issue seriously, because it represents a risk to them.
Now, today, hours before this hearing, you received a letter from the minister's office essentially saying that they sent you the information a long time ago and that the information, the reports, show there isn't a risk to human health in your community.
How did it feel to receive that letter? What do you make of the timing, given that this letter was sent to you hours before this hearing today in Parliament?
Councillor, Mikisew Cree First Nation
It felt like a kick in the gut, for sure. It just feels like they're creating confusion among us and trying to divert away from themselves and create chaos between the three of us nations. We come here together because this is about our community. That's the main thing. It's about our community of Fort Chipewyan, and the three of us together are stronger than just one.
If they're going to create this gap, or whatever you want to call it, between the three of us, it's not going to work. We're here and we're fighting our case, and we hope that you guys can hear and understand, as you said, our communities and our frustrations.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Chief Adam, it's notable that your nation was excluded from the list of nations that were apparently notified. What do you make of that?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
Maybe we're excluded from everything because nobody wants to hear us. The fact remains that information is being shared with both the Métis and the Mikisew Cree First Nation. It was all given to them, but it wasn't given to us. The information that was given out this morning, which shared information our community knows about, was given to us but not to them. There is a big communication misunderstanding, and it is done by Transport Canada.
We have to look at the facts. At the time, former minister Pablo Rodriguez refused to address this issue. Since then, he has stepped down as minister of transport and sits as an independent, but this issue is not going away, no matter where former minister Pablo Rodriguez goes. Our issue with the big dock is that it is going to remain contaminated. Our kids will continue to go swimming there if nobody is watching them. We can't man the big dock. We can't put a lifeguard down there who can say, “I'm sorry. You can't go into the water.” If that's the case, is Transport Canada going to pay for the lifeguard?
Let's be honest about it. These are the issues that are happening. We're trying to keep our kids away from the contaminated water because of the sediments. We need that cleaned up.
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Since 2013, there have been, I understand, dozens of emails about the potential divestment of the dock. There have been in-person meetings where government officials have come to the community to talk to you about the idea of selling you the dock, or transferring the dock.
In any of these meetings and communications, was there any mention whatsoever of the fact that it is contaminated?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
No, not from my recollection, and I probably sit here with the longest standing among us. Ever since I've been involved with the committee on the big dock issue, not once has it ever been mentioned to me or anybody sitting there that there is contamination in the big dock area.
President, Board of Directors, Fort Chipewyan Métis Nation
I want to add that we were pretty happy to be told that the dock could be ours. This was before we found out about the contaminants. We were pleased that Transport Canada said we could take over the dock, but we didn't know about the contamination because we'd been neglected for so long on the big dock. We just wanted to have it fixed so we could have proper boat-launching and safety means.
Liberal
NDP
Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Looking back on the process, did you get a feeling that the federal government would have been willing to transfer the dock to you without ever disclosing or discussing the contamination in a meaningful way?
Athabasca Chipewyan First Nation
I think the possibility is real. A threat was evident. They wanted to transfer everything over to us, including the liability, but there was no mention of that ever.
It was only for safety reasons, for evacuation, because our community doesn't have an all-weather road leading out of it. That's how all of this came to be. It was because there's no all-weather road. We need safe access out of the community of Fort Chip if all hell breaks loose.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke
Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.
Thank you, Chief Adam.
I want to thank colleagues for allowing me to be a little lenient with the time today. I'm planning to do so for the rest of the meeting and for the meeting on Thursday, if it's all right with all committee members.
I will now turn the floor over to Mrs. Goodridge.
Mrs. Goodridge, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.
Conservative
Laila Goodridge Conservative Fort McMurray—Cold Lake, AB
Thank you.
One thing that I think is important to get on the record here is why this is such a critical piece of infrastructure. I'm sure there are people watching at home going, “Why is there a dock that DFO and Transport Canada own in northern Alberta, a landlocked province?” As you stated, there is no all-weather road to get up there.
Councillor Tuccaro, how do you get to Fort Chipewyan in the summertime?