Transport Committee on Dec. 13th, 2024

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

What's not appropriate is when somebody has the floor; others need to turn their mic off.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

I'll ask all members to ensure that they direct any questions through the chair. I'll make sure that any actions that are required are indeed put in place.

Is that still something you'd like to discuss, Dr. Lewis, or was that addressed by your colleague, Mr. Lawrence?

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

The inappropriateness of speaking to witnesses who come here and give of their time.... I think it's highly inappropriate to treat witnesses like that.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Dr. Lewis.

I'll now turn the floor over to Mr. Barsalou-Duval.

The floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

After hearing everything that has been said today, I think it is obvious that the reason given by Air Canada to justify this measure is competition. Its executives say they need Air Canada to remain comparable to its competitors.

I have already stated my own disagreement with that argument. Air Canada is an industry leader. It is the airline that sets the pace in the industry. So it could decide to aim high rather aiming low, particularly since it had profits of $2.279 billion in 2023 and over $1 billion in the last quarter. Air Canada is not exactly destitute.

That said, Mr. Chair, I would like to move the following motion and seek the unanimous consent of the committee to pass it:

That Air Canada inform the Committee of the number of hours that Michael Rousseau, the president and CEO of Air Canada, has spent learning French since 2021. The answer is to be broken down by week, month and year.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

We have all heard the terms of this.

I see your hand up, Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Have you started making a list of members who would like to speak to the motion?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm going to make one. We'll start with you, Mr. van Koeverden.

[Adam van Koeverden, Liberal, Milton, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

In fact, I was wondering the same thing about Mr. Rousseau. When I started this job five years ago, my French was very limited, as in his case. I didn't brag about it. I am proud of my progress, but I know I have a lot more work to do. It is important in Canada to work in both official languages.

The question I have regarding Mr. Rousseau is this: how many lessons does he take every week to improve his French? For that reason, I agree with Mr. Barsalou‑Duval's motion.

I congratulate Mr. Rousseau on his progress, but I encourage him to keep going.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. van Koeverden.

Are there any other comments?

Seeing none, do I have unanimous consent to adopt the motion put forward by Monsieur Barsalou-Duval?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Ms. Dance, the floor is yours. You have three minutes and 30 seconds to end us off today.

[Leila Dance, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you.

Dr. Lukács, you've been sitting here the whole time very patiently, not saying anything.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Leila Dance, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

You've been in the gallery listening to all of the major airlines talking. I just want to know what your thoughts are on the numbers that they gave and the effect that it will have on passengers. Moreover, what are your thoughts on the claims that are being made by the airline about how these things will lead to lower costs for passengers?

[Dr. Gábor Lukács]

I feel that perhaps two different questions got entangled here today. One question is about price transparency. When an average consumer, even a naive consumer, goes online to shop for their ticket, how easily will they know how much they are going to be able to travel for? What will be the total at the end? All these add-on junk fees actually get in the way of knowing what the price to be paid is at the end of the day.

Airlines could still give passengers discounts for not having a carry-on or any baggage, and I have no issue with that. It's just how the information is presented to the consumers that I am concerned about, from a passenger rights perspective.

The second question is a question of how air travel in Canada is funded. It's an important question, but it feels as though perhaps we are digressing from why this committee convened for today's meeting. In terms of the funding model, certainly there would be a lot to do to look at how airports are being funded. The airport improvement fee is a question. There's no oversight around how the airports operate. There's a long history of how those powers were transferred from the government to the airports, and it's a way of evading responsibility to the public.

Having said that, I also agree with those who question where the money is going to come from eventually. Somebody has to pay for it. There's no free lunch. For those airline executives who claim that some of those fees should be lowered from what they call government taxes, I want to hear, personally, as a passenger, who is going to pay for it. I have a neighbour in Halifax who told me that he hasn't flown for 30 years for various personal reasons. Why should he be subsidizing my air travel? How can we do it fairly? These are all important questions. From a passenger perspective, though, the immediate question is this: How is it possible, in 2024, that even though there are laws talking about price transparency and even though there are regulations, still such junk fees exist?

That is a problem the government could and should address very quickly. The government could do it with a stroke of a pen as a form of a Governor in Council order, and I urge you to do that. Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Colleagues, if you'll permit, I have one question I'd like to ask, which I actually received via social media because I've been livestreaming this on my social media platforms. I'd like to pass this along to you, Mr. Rousseau, and the team from Air Canada.

We all want to see a flourishing air sector in Canada. We all want to ensure that there's competition. Competition drives down price, in theory. There are certain routes where Air Canada is the only provider. The people who use those routes, Montreal to Saint John, for example—there are a couple of them across the country—have no choice, and there is no competition. Therefore, in theory, this fee would be detrimental to them because they'd have to absorb the cost since there's no other alternative.

The question that was asked, which I just received on Facebook, is this: Has Air Canada given any thought to perhaps, on the routes where there is no competition, removing this increase to ensure that there's no rural-urban divide, which exists a great deal in this country?

The question is posed to you, Mr. Rousseau, or to anybody who's joining us here in person.

[Michael Rousseau]

We'll give that consideration. We hadn't thought about that. Please understand, though, that we may be on a route by ourselves, but any other airline can join and can be a competitor on that route. They choose not to. Air Canada provides more regional service than any other airline in Canada. We're not scared of competition, so if our competitors want to come on those routes—and I know there's space available at the regional airports—then they can do that. They chose not to do that, basically.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Rousseau. We do look forward to hearing back from you after considering that, and we'd share that and perhaps would include it in our report.

With that, I want to thank all the witnesses for joining us today. Dr. Lukács and the representatives from Air Canada, thanks for contributing to this very important study for Canadians.

I want to wish everyone happy holidays.

Of course, I want to say a special thank you to our clerk. It is her last meeting as the clerk of our TRAN committee. We wish you all the best in your next challenges.

[Voices]

Hear, hear!

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

With that, safe travels, everyone.

This meeting is adjourned.