Transport Committee on Sept. 28th, 2022

[John McKenna]

I can't give you any precise numbers because we're still collecting all these numbers, but the impact is that it's slowing down our recovery, of course. That's our concern here; it's our ability to serve the travelling public.

A comment I want to make, which complements what's been said, is that whether airlines or Nav Canada or CATSA, they had to send home about 50% to 60% to 90% of their personnel during the pandemic. You're bringing back all these people, and that requires training.

I think Nav Canada let go 700 flight controllers. You can't hire these people off the street. They require training. It's the same thing with CATSA. It's the same thing with our pilots. When an airline lets go 90% of its pilots, some of those people will just not come back to the industry, and when they do come back, a lot of retraining is required. All of this slows down the process of recovery.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

So government policy clearly has had a cost impact on airports in the last few years.

[John McKenna]

Oh, I'd say it has in the last 50 years.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Sure, but it's been particularly bad in the last couple of years.

With respect to your 10 recommendations, if you could boil them down to one or two that are most pertinent, what would you say those are?

[John McKenna]

The government needs to act more as a partner than as a collector of taxes. We need them to be a partner. Everyone on this panel today has indicated that we work with government hand in hand. All these people are partners in the passenger experience, and they need to be there to help us along in improving the technology, facilitating the process and cutting down red tape. They're a big player, and they need to work with us to alleviate many of these irritants.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

You have 20 seconds left, Mr. Muys.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

Mr. McKenna, what is one piece of red tape you'd cut immediately that would have a significant impact?

[John McKenna]

Immigration is one thing. We need to have access to foreign workers.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Muys.

Thank you very much, Mr. McKenna.

It's over to you now Mr. Iacono, for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, witnesses for being here today.

Mr. Massé, are there physical limitations on the volume of traffic at airports like the one in Montreal can handle, simply because of its layout? Could that be one of the reasons behind the delays we experienced this summer?

[Martin Massé]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

At Montreal's Trudeau International Airport, The main challenge is not runway capacity. We could very well continue to operate with the two parallel runways until the end of our lease in 2072. In 2019, there were between 220,000 and 225,000 aircraft movements on these two runways. London's Heathrow airport, which has the same configuration, handles 475,000 aircraft movements per year. Runway capacity is therefore not an issue.

For infrastructure as such, there are clearly limits. There are limits on moving walls or maintaining social distancing in the airport as was requested during the pandemic, while still remaining viable. That's why technology and biometrics will make it possible to have more passengers within the same infrastructure. My colleagues discussed this at length. I would add that physical challenges are more of a factor for road or other forms of access to the airport—for example the Metropolitan Express Network—than within the airport site itself.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Massé.

Mr. Boudreau, We know there were serious problems around the world, but in particular at Canadian airports. What new technologies might be used in our airports to speed things up?

[Trevor Boudreau]

Thank you for the question. I'm going to answer in English, which is my first language.

I talked a lot about the digital platform that we developed here at YVR. That was an investment of $4.5 million over the last couple of years. To put that into context, ahead of the pandemic we were planning to spend about $9.6 billion on infrastructure over the next 10 years.

That digital platform is allowing us to make the best use of the existing assets we have today and will increase our throughput on the passenger side, but importantly, as we look at our supply-constrained world, it also will allow us to better utilize our infrastructure for the benefit of Canada's supply chains. I also talked a bit about the investment we're looking to make that will help spur $250 billion in trade and investment over the next 20 years.

Those digital solutions will help us both on the passenger front and also as we continue to be the economic engines for Canada.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Do you have anything to add, Mr. Massé?

[Martin Massé]

No, I don't have anything to add. I agree with my colleague.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

My next question is for Ms. Hunka.

You highlighted in your opening comments the great success of the technological advancement in screening protocols and the effective use of data systems. They were very interesting remarks in an era when data is so important.

Nonetheless, data collecting has its risks when one fails to protect its privacy. I'm just wondering, what protocols are set in place to ensure the protection of personal information?

[Carmelle Hunka]

Thank you very much for the question.

Certainly, the protection of the personal information of guests and passengers is critically important. and the use of those technologies needs to really address that. We need to partner with those organizations that have been successful in making sure they are protecting that technology and have the processes in place to continue to monitor and moderate those technologies as we move forward.

We also need to understand where we are collecting and holding that technology, and where that technology is being utilized for the purposes of moving people through the flows in our airports and then is destroyed and no longer available and no longer accessible. Those are the strategies that I think we would need to be thoughtful about.

We know that is an issue, but I also know that in a lot of these technologies I understand that these technologies aren't collecting and holding the information. It is utilized at a point in time and then it is gone from the system.

Those are the kinds of things that we need to be mindful about.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Mr. Massé, are you also in agreement?

[Martin Massé]

Yes, that's our view on this as well.

It's important to note that an airport authority has very little data compared to what is done it in places like the European Union. The airline companies do not share much information with us, which makes the use of technology very difficult.

It's certainly something we need to look into in future. Cyber security is a major challenge, not only for an airport authority, but also for the country's strategic assets. We've seen just how vulnerable airports were in various conflicts around the world. That's definitely a matter that needs to be studied closely in future.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I'd like to thank all the witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

Colleagues, due to limited House resources, we do have a hard stop today at 6:30. We have two more rounds of questioning.

The first will go to Mr. Dowdall for five minutes, who will be followed by Mr. Chahal.

Mr. Dowdall, I will turn it over to you for five minutes.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you very much.

I want to thank all of the speakers and guests who are here today for their testimony.

As well, I want to take an opportunity to thank all those who work in the sector. I know that it has been a frustrating time, and was longer than we probably needed, but I certainly want to thank them, because a lot of the reasons that people were yelled and screamed at weren't actually their fault: It was basically government rules and regulations.

I want to go back to a comment that I heard a little earlier from Mr. McKenna, I guess, about the government and being a partner. It's often said that the only ship that doesn't sail is a partnership, and I would have to say that in that light, it's what I've heard from you and from many in my riding of Simcoe—Grey.

I have Honda there in the automotive sector, and I have lots of agriculture there. They're saying they're not having the opportunity, that decisions are made without consultation to see exactly how those are going to affect their industries. Can you elaborate on how it has been for you with the ministry? Do you get meetings? What I'm hearing from you is frustration.

[John McKenna]

Thank you, sir.

I would say yes, especially in the pandemic. I think the people at Transport Canada did their very best to accommodate us, but they were not part of the decision-making process in terms of measures being imposed on our industry. We had no one at the table defending our position. Everybody was saying, “Hold on, because what you're suggesting just can't be done in the timeline you're asking us to do it in.”

I think Transport Canada was certainly helpful in relaying these messages and perhaps in relaying back our messages, but we felt that the people making those decisions were not at all aware or concerned about their impact on our industry.

It has been a very frustrating time as far as that goes.

[Terry Dowdall, Conservative, Simcoe—Grey, ON]

Thank you for that.

I have another question when it comes to forecasts of how things are going to go in the future. I hear from people in my constituency that they're having a tough time now. We talk, and there's been talk in the newspapers as well, about how there perhaps may be a recession. I don't know.

In your forecasting for your staffing levels for things of that nature, right now it's busy. People want to get away and they've saved up some money, but what is the long-term thought process of the industry? I guess what I'm going to is that when you look at your rents, how is that going to affect you moving forward?

[John McKenna]

Who is this question addressed to, sir?