Transport Committee on April 18th, 2023

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'm sorry, Dr. Lewis. We have a point of order from Ms. O'Connell.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Mr. Chair, it's customary that when a question is asked, the witness is given a relatively equal amount of time to respond without—

[A voice]

[Inaudible—Editor] equal amount of time.

[Jennifer O'Connell, Liberal, Pickering—Uxbridge, ON]

Excuse me. I have a point of order, and I have been recognized by the chair. I would appreciate not being interrupted while I have the floor.

Mr. Chair, my point of order is that for the sake of interpreters, it is incredibly difficult to receive interpretation when people are talking over each other. If Dr. Lewis would like to take back her time, that's reasonable, but interrupting the minister or witnesses does not help our interpreters. It is also customary in this committee to allow the witness to respond in an equal amount of time.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. O'Connell.

I'll just ask members and remind members to do their best not to talk over the witnesses whenever possible.

Dr. Lewis, you have three minutes and four seconds left on your time. The floor is yours.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Yes. Thank you, Chair. We do have limited time, so I do reserve my right to interrupt if the minister's going on too long.

Minister, what exactly are the metrics you use in judging whether or not the Infrastructure Bank is successful? I do want to make note that in fact in 2021, there was less invested in infrastructure than there was in 2022. It wasn't ramping up. In fact, there were double salaries paid in 2021 and 2022...than there was in infrastructure projects.

What are the metrics you use, MInister?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Mr. Chair, thank you.

The metrics we use are the investment decisions that the bank, approved by their board, makes. Of course, we're happy to share with the committee the detailed list of large projects and smaller ones in every part of the country where they have made an investment decision. Many of these projects are multi-year projects. There are different moments in a particular project's planning where certain amounts of money would be booked by the bank.

The good news is that they're receiving more requests for financing. They are processing, i.e., approving, investment decisions on an increasing basis. Of course, in terms of their own operating costs, they are transparent and in our view reasonable as compared with other private sector financial institutions.

I would urge you, Mr. Chair, and I understand that it may be in the coming days, that the CEO of the Infrastructure Bank, Mr. Cory, and the board chair, Madam Vrooman, are the ones who are best able to talk to that. The good news is that the deputy and I are meeting with them later this evening, and I'd be happy to share Dr. Lewis's concerns with them and urge them to come to the committee, if they're invited, with very fulsome answers to that.

[Leslyn Lewis, Conservative, Haldimand—Norfolk, ON]

Thank you.

Thank you, Minister.

Minister, I'm still very concerned that the single recommendation of this committee that the Infrastructure Bank be abolished is not something that you are adhering to. By every single metric—zero projects, failing to leverage private sector investments and failing in transparency—the bank has missed the mark.

Will you undertake to do an honest assessment of the performance, productivity and transparency of this bank in the five-year review, or are we going to see an A+ grade accorded to this bank?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Again, Mr. Chair, it won't surprise you and some colleagues that I don't share Dr. Lewis's pessimism with respect to the bank. I share the concern that I think all of us had in terms of its ability to quickly ramp up and make money available as a financial institution would for these important projects.

The good news, Mr. Chair, as colleagues will know, is that there is a legislative review of the bank that's currently under way. I've had an initial briefing from officials who have been involved in this. That will be part of the transparency.

Dr. Lewis doesn't share that view. That's fine. We think the bank has been transparent, as it should be, and so the government will be with this legislated review that is currently under way. My hope, Mr. Chair, is that we'll share it with Parliament before the end of June. Perhaps, if I'm very lucky, you'll invite me back in the fall to talk about it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister. We may take you up on that.

Mr. Iacono, you have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

For some MPs and for some parties, the Canada Infrastructure Bank has no purpose. But I believe the opposite. In Laval alone, the bank helped to revamp and improve the Société de transport de Laval, including services, energy and greenhouse gas reduction.

Minister, there are two large infrastructure projects in my riding, specifically the Pie‑IX bridge and the extension of highway 19, between highway 440 in Laval and highway 640 in Bois‑des‑Filion.

Can you update the committee about the status of both infrastructure projects and outline the impacts they will have on transportation in our communities?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank our colleague, Mr. Iacono, for his question.

I share his concerns. The city of Laval and the region it represents in Quebec have recorded very significant population growth, which obviously leads to certain infrastructure needs.

The member raised the issue of the Pie‑IX bridge. As he knows, an agreement in principle was reached in February 2023, in order to include this project in a transportation agreement with the ministère des Transports et de la Mobilité durable of Quebec. Over the coming months, we're expecting an approval from Quebec's Cabinet, which will allow changes to the agreement in order to include this project. It's also important to note that there are two projects for the Pie‑IX bridge, and not just one.

There was a project prior to the one currently included in the agreement between Canada and Quebec. The good news is that we've obtained the government of Quebec's cooperation. In passing, I'd like to acknowledge Minister Guilbeault and Minister Julien. I hope we will be announcing significant investments with Quebec.

Our colleague, Mr. Iacono, mentioned extending highways 19 and 440 in Laval, as well as highway 640 in Bois‑des‑Filion.

As I said earlier, this project involves completing a section of highway 19, located between the 440 in Laval and the 640. It involves adding three new lanes, one of which will be reserved for buses, electric buses and carpooling vehicles, as well as four new interchanges and a new bridge to the east. The project also includes building a park-and-ride and a terminal, setting up noise barriers and extending a multiuse trail.

It is therefore a project that recognizes the importance of this infrastructure in our colleague's riding, and an example of other investments we can hope to make. It will be my pleasure to work with Mr. Iacono to pursue these types of investments, which are essential for Laval, a city I enjoy very much and an important region for Canada's economy.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

How is the federal government working on advancing major infrastructure projects in Quebec?

For example, could you provide more details on progress made with extending the Montreal metro's blue line, between the Saint‑Michel and Anjou stations?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Iacono just named another megaproject. Extending the Montreal metro's blue line, just like Quebec City's tramway, is a public transit project. Those are two examples of major investments we've done.

On several occasions, I've discussed with the Quebec government the difficulty of cost increases for both megaprojects, which are suffering the same fate as other projects proceeding throughout the country. However, the good news is that we've come to an agreement with the Quebec government for the blue line project to move forward.

I hope to meet up with Mr. Iacono and our colleagues in the greater Montreal area soon. Mr. Garon is also welcome if he wants to come and share the good news with us.

I am really looking forward to it, Mr. Chair. You might be there too.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I will be happy to be there, Minister. Thank you.

We will now give the floor to Mr. Garon for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

You can also invite me to the Gatineau tramway announcement.

Minister, municipalities can access public infrastructure funds to counter shoreline erosion. However, there are situations where affected lands are private property. That's the case along the Richelieu River, for example, where extremely costly and significant work needs to be done.

Is that a situation you've thought about?

Are you planning to take steps to help these property owners adapt to climate change?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Garon.

I've seen it in Atlantic Canada as well, just as you have at home. It's a challenge in coastal areas or in those with major rivers, such as the Richelieu River, which you mentioned.

The deputy minister will correct me if needed, but my understanding is that most, if not all, federal programs target public infrastructure. As for costs associated with mitigating overflow risks, or preventing shoreline erosion on private land in coastal areas, the issue of private property rights falls under the provinces.

I'm not trying to quibble; I don't know the answer, but currently…

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

We're in the same situation. Haven't you negotiated with Quebec and the provinces to set up programs?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

To my knowledge, we haven't received any requests from the provinces, including Quebec, about investing in private lands.

As I said, it's a challenge for financial institutions, insurance companies and individuals. I'll be happy to raise it at the next infrastructure ministers' meeting. My colleague Bill Blair is working on the issue of insurance, but it doesn't include risk mitigation, as you said.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

We have 20 seconds left and I have a very good question to ask you, Minister.

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

I can't wait. Go ahead.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Regarding the Active Transportation Fund and the Natural Infrastructure Fund, we know that the project submission deadline has passed. It's been several months, even a year for one of the two funds.

Can you tell us which proportion of the $400 million and $200 million funding envelopes will go to Quebec, as well as the nature of the selected projects? If not, can you send that information to the committee?

[Dominic LeBlanc, Liberal, Beauséjour, NB]

Once the final decisions are made, approved projects and the proportion of funds allocated to each province will be disclosed transparently. It will be my pleasure. I just want to confirm that the final decisions have indeed been finalized. Otherwise, we can give you the facts about decisions made to date, or even confirm the final details once both funds are spent.

It's a shame that there were many more applications than funds available, but I'm certain that, as an MP for Quebec, you will be pleased with the selected projects. We will provide you with this information right away, or even confirm everything once the funds are spent.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Garon.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach. The floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, transit authorities have expressed concerns—and I'm sure they've done this with you directly—as have other groups, with something they've termed the “public transit death spiral”. At the same time that your federal government is investing in transit infrastructure and has made commitments to the future expansion of public transit systems, there are immediate concerns about the operations of existing transit.

I'm wondering if you could characterize in your own words the public transit death spiral.