Transport Committee on April 20th, 2023

[Arun Thangaraj]

Yes. The government analyzed a number of procurement models.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Would Transport Canada be willing to table that evaluation with the committee?

[Arun Thangaraj]

If you request it, we can table that.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay.

I would like to make that request, Mr. Chair. I don't know if we need to vote on it.

Yes, I think that would be very interesting information, because obviously there's a vigorous debate out there about the risks of the P3 model. We see projects like the LRT in Ottawa, which has been an abject failure. There are plenty of examples across Canada of where the private sector has really messed up these big capital projects. I think it's in the public interest here. When we're talking about the future of passenger rail in Canada, we need to put public interest right at the heart of that.

I understand that this is really a question for the minister, because it's more political than operational, but I think you know what I'm getting at here. The assumptions that go into those assessments are vitally important.

[Arun Thangaraj]

In the assessment of those models, we did look at, for example, the findings of the inquiry of the LRT. Those findings and the experience of other major infrastructure projects are integrated into how we're approaching procurement and how we're approaching the codevelopment phase and working with that partner.

Again, we were very conscious of all those experiences as we went down that path. That informed the selection of the model that we used.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Deputy Minister, and thank you, Mr. Bachrach. We will be putting forward a formal written request. A vote is not necessary.

Next we will go to Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Lewis, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the officials for their testimony this morning. It's certainly appreciated.

I'm going to go down a little bit of a different path here. I would like to talk about electric vehicles. The minister in the last hour spoke about the importance of EVs and how that looks. My question is around that.

We have targets set for 2030. It's unfortunate that our targets do not meet America's targets. It's incredibly unfortunate. It's very difficult for our manufacturers, for sure, but let's talk about the federal gas tax. For every percentage of EVs we put on the road, the government will be losing federal gas tax revenues, of course. Does that come out of Transport Canada's budget?

Which budget will this come from? What will be slashed because of the lack of revenue for that?

[Arun Thangaraj]

What does come out of the department's budget is the incentive program, so the subsidies or the incentives provided to Canadians and businesses for light-duty and heavy-duty vehicles.

The question on the gas tax is something that is better directed to my colleagues from the finance department.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

Obviously your department must be very much aware and focused on the lack of revenue that would be coming from gasoline.

I'll just make it simpler. Do you have discussions with the minister about this?

[Arun Thangaraj]

In working with colleagues from other government departments in the strategy of decarbonization, we look at all of the angles, all of it. There was a full cost-benefit analysis that was conducted on the revenue side, but also on the impacts and the financial impact of carbon emissions. Those factors were all weighed as part of the development of the policy.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

If it hasn't been thoroughly thought through, I would suggest we start doing that, because there is going to be a huge hole in our revenues.

Specific to the eastern ferry services' budgetary support that the minister spoke about, can you tell me if the Pelee Island and Manitoulin Island ferries are part of this eastern budgetary support?

[Arun Thangaraj]

No, they are not.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

What specifically is the eastern one? Is that just the important ferries, like those types that go to St. John's, Newfoundland?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Yes, it's those specifically as well as the ones between P.E.I. and Nova Scotia.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Was consideration given to Pelee Island and/or Manitoulin Island ferries? I know they're suffering enormously with labour.

[Arun Thangaraj]

Those ferries operate under provincial jurisdiction.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay, that's Ontario. Thank you for that.

Specifically to the high-speed rail, I'm going to ask about the Toronto-to-Windsor corridor, as Essex is my riding, right next to Windsor. When the high-speed rail goes in, will there be a new set of railroad tracks this goes on, or are we using the existing set?

[Arun Thangaraj]

The idea behind the high-frequency rail is that there will be a dedicated right of way for the project.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

That's new tracks.

[Arun Thangaraj]

Yes, that is for portions of it. As part of the assessment of the alignment options, there may be existing tracks that are used in segments where there isn't a conflict between freight and passenger rail currently, but there will be a significant component for a new right of way.

Vincent.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Yes, please go ahead.

[Vincent Robitaille]

Just to illustrate, sometimes you have new tracks that are next to existing tracks, for example, so that's when we say right of way. That would be the distinction.

Generally, for the service it needs to be brand new tracks on the ground and signalling systems. There are specific pinch points, such as near city centres, where we need to use existing tracks.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay. Thank you.

I have just 30 seconds for one final comment. The reason I asked that, of course, was that I was on the west coast last weekend meeting with our port authorities out there and whatnot. Quite frankly, the bottleneck is the railroad tracks. It's not the ports. We can have all the greatest infrastructure in the world, but if we have only one set, then we're going to bottleneck ourselves.

Thank you to all of the officials this morning. I appreciate it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Lewis.

Next we have Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Badawey, the floor is yours. You have five minutes.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the witnesses for being here today.

The minister mentioned earlier strengthening the nation's port system. My question is this: Do you feel this will create fluidity within our supply chains, and if so, how?