Transport Committee on April 20th, 2023

[Arun Thangaraj]

As we saw, what became very clearly apparent is the role that ports play in the smooth movement of goods and services, and the supply chain task force did highlight that very clearly. A key element, as the previous questioner noted, is how rail functions in and out of ports and how trucks work.

We are very focused on how we make the full port system work. Part of Bill C-33 enables all of those things—fluidity, environment and other considerations—to be integrated in the decision-making of ports. Part of what we are looking at is also the digital information to ensure that the infrastructure is used to its maximum effectiveness. There was a recent call, as part of the national trade corridors fund, to that end. There are various initiatives that we have that really do coalesce around making ports function as efficiently and as effectively as possible.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you for that answer.

With regard to binational integration of supply chains, frankly, this is something that, in travelling to Washington on many occasions throughout the past few years we've been advocating for on behalf of our country, and in working with the U.S.

For example, Niagara, which is the area I represent, has worked diligently throughout the past many years and continues to work in a binational fashion with our U.S. partners to move trade as well as people. A perfect example of that is the Great Lakes and the $22.5-million investment that the federal government made into the City of Port Colborne to do just that. In this case, it's to move people. Also, the residual benefit is the trade, which would be using the same docks that the $22.5 million will be invested in.

The President came to Ottawa a few weeks ago and made the comment that it's a priority, with respect to the binational integration of supply chains.

What investments are being made? Can you speak about what accounts or programs are available and can be leveraged as funding for other partners to be involved to ensure that those capital investments are made in the best interests of the binational integration of supply chains?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Thank you for the question.

The national trade corridors fund is the vehicle that we've used to leverage investments that facilitate and expand our trade opportunities. To date, I believe we've invested about $3.7 billion, which has leveraged an additional $4.7 billion in investment in ports, rail and cargo facilities. That strengthens the bilateral trade relationship we have with the United States.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Because of the national trade corridors fund and other funds as well, like maybe infrastructure or environment—for example, the $420 million that was just announced for the Great Lakes—do you think there are opportunities to work with other funds by leveraging or stacking funding with the NTCF and/or utilizing private sector interests, which might extend the leveraging for some of those investments?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Thank you for that question.

There have been announcements on green shipping corridors and on greening port infrastructure as well. Stacking has a specific connotation when we provide funding. There are limits, according to policy.

What we want to do through our programming is leverage and crowd in funding from other levels of government and from the private sector. I would argue that we've been very successful in doing that to date.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

My last question is about digital and data, which you mentioned earlier.

Do you find there are opportunities, as part of that leveraging, to utilize our binational U.S. partners so that, going back to my first question, it creates more fluidity within the system?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Very much.

We know that data is an asset that is tremendously underutilized. When we look at port community systems, for example, in Europe and in places like Singapore, where data flows and information is exchanged, they can really maximize supply chains and throughput in ports.

I had a conversation last week with my counterpart at the Department of Transportation and we committed to sharing data. Our statistical agencies work very closely together to share data. They have an ongoing initiative that uses Canadian data currently to smooth the flow and make things move more efficiently.

We agreed that we would continue to do that and keep each other aware of the issues that we have around data.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Thank you, Deputy Minister.

Mr. Garon, you have the floor for two and a half minutes.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to take you to Trois-Rivieres—not physically, obviously. The Port of Trois-Rivières is recognized as a good corporate citizen, involved in the community, and so on. There is a recreation and tourism project with the City of Trois-Rivières that has been planned for several years. It seems that the port is not allowed to undertake projects of this nature on its land.

Have there been any discussions between Transport Canada and the Port of Trois-Rivières on this issue? Would there be any way to get such a project unblocked on land that cannot be used, as I understand it, for port purposes?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Thank you for that question.

Maybe I'll provide a bit of general information, and then we'll have to come back to you with further information if required.

Any time that a number of regulations apply when projects are there—for example, the Canadian Navigable Waters Act in terms of things that may impact navigation on waterways when things, whether they be recreational or commercial, are proposed—there is a regulatory process that the department is implicated in. I don't have the details specifically on Trois-Rivières, but we'd be more than happy to provide an update to you in writing.

[Jean-Denis Garon, Bloc, Mirabel, QC]

Perfect. I would appreciate it if you could send us the information in writing.

I'd like to go back to the estimate of how many passengers would take the high-frequency train if there were no high-speed train.

You tell us that there was an estimate, in which the type of train was defined. It also mentioned increasing the number of passengers.

Mr. Robitaille, you told us about the sources, the increase in frequency, the increase in speed, the transition from automobile to train, and the economic growth of the population by 2050. On the one hand, there is the project, and on the other hand, there is the increase in ridership.

Mr. Chair, I am making a formal request. I would like the estimate on the increase in ridership to be provided to the committee.

[Vincent Robitaille]

There is a procurement process. There are a number of things that we can convey publicly, but we also want to encourage competition. Of course, we will respond to the member's request.

I would like to make a small correction. The call for tenders suggests minimum outcomes, for example, in terms of ridership. It doesn't say anything about the technology, the type of train, the alignment and where the tracks should be built. What is being requested is that the route connect certain cities. We're talking about increasing ridership and decreasing travel times. We are challenging ourselves to do better. The call for tenders asks the private sector to surpass the established minimums, without dictating a way of doing things. We want as much innovation as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Robitaille and Mr. Garon.

Next, and finally, we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On March 21, a railcar full of petcoke caught on fire in the rail yard in Smithers, B.C., my home community. The volunteer fire department in Smithers responded with 17 firefighters. The neighbouring Telkwa volunteer fire department responded with a number of units and personnel. This was a single car filled with a relatively inert substance. I see comments in the newspaper from the deputy fire chief saying that “with the types of hazardous materials moving through Smithers a large-scale rail event would quickly go beyond our fire fighting capacity.”

I think this speaks to the emergency response assistance plans that the railways are required to have. Those plans are approved by Transport Canada. The real concern here is the transport of more volatile dangerous goods, like liquefied propane. Because we've seen such a dramatic increase in the transport of propane through our rail corridor—hundreds of cars per week—is there a point, when hazardous goods increase in volume, at which Transport Canada requires the railroads to reassess their ERAPs, their emergency response assistance plans, and have them reapproved by Transport Canada?

At what time was the current ERAP that is in place last assessed and approved by your department?

[Nicholas Robinson]

Specific to the last time for the ERAP in and around Smithers, B.C., I'd have to get back to you.

The ERAP is one pillar of a multipillar approach around the transportation of dangerous goods. It is assessed against risk. When you add on additional risk, when you start to transport things that might have elevated risk, we do have to re-evaluate the ERAP.

The other piece around the transportation of dangerous goods that we need to focus on and that might be different from other instances we've seen over a number of weeks and months is that Canada, when it comes to the transportation of dangerous goods, has very clear safety standards around speed and around inspection as these dangerous goods go through the country.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I appreciate that. I think the key concern here is that when things go very wrong, as we've seen happen in Canada several times, what is the response capacity to keep the community safe? There's a real concern among these smaller communities with volunteer fire departments that their capacity is simply insufficient to deal with a major disaster.

The implications of having multiple cars full of liquid propane on fire in the heart of a community are absolutely unthinkable, and I'm very concerned that our current plans are not up to the standard they need to be to protect human life and to avoid something like what happened in Lac-Mégantic from happening in a community in northern British Columbia.

I believe I'm out of time, so I'll leave it there. I look forward to following up with the department on this topic.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

On behalf of all members, I'd like to thank the witnesses, the departmental officials, for appearing before committee today and for answering our questions.

Before we adjourn, colleagues, I believe we have unanimous consent to move the following motions on the main estimates. I'll read the motions out for everyone's consideration.

CANADIAN AIR TRANSPORT SECURITY AUTHORITY

Vote 1—Payments to the Authority for operating and capital expenditures..........$561,429,271

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

CANADIAN TRANSPORTATION AGENCY

Vote 1—Program expenditures..........$27,756,954

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORT

Vote 1—Operation expenditures..........$1,019,788,928

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$165,973,915

Vote 10—Grants and Contributions..........$2,178,360,403

(Votes 1, 5 and 10 agreed to on division)

MARINE ATLANTIC INC.

Vote 1—Payments to the corporation..........$189,617,507

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

OFFICE OF INFRASTRUCTURE OF CANADA

Vote 1—Operating expenditures..........$247,556,443

Vote 5—Capital expenditures..........$93,866,503

Vote 10—Grants and contributions..........$6,916,338,456

(Votes 1, 5 and 10 agreed to on division)

THE FEDERAL BRIDGE CORPORATION LIMITED

Vote 1—Payments to the Corporation..........$7,381,000

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

THE JACQUES-CARTIER AND CHAMPLAIN BRIDGES INC.

Vote 1—Payments to the corporation..........$144,126,071

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

VIA HFR - VIA TGF INC.

Vote 1—Payments to the corporation for operating and capital expenditures..........$43,670,000

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

VIA RAIL CANADA INC.

Vote 1—Payments to the Corporation..........$1,233,649,830

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

WINDSOR-DETROIT BRIDGE AUTHORITY

Vote 1—Payments to the Authority..........$885,179,373

(Vote 1 agreed to on division)

Shall I report the main estimates 2023-24 to the House?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much. With that, the meeting is adjourned.