We had a lot of discussions on this.
Again, it's unfortunate that Mr. Morneau is not here, because you could hear his view on it, or talk to, I think, Paul Rochon, who was the deputy minister at the time. There was a clear arrangement designed with the McKinsey support team in terms of what they could do and not do.
We discussed it as a council. The view was that we needed facts and support. Again, in the decisions we made, the deliberations were done only with the council. There was no one from McKinsey in those sessions.
It was very much about providing information that we requested, that members of the council requested. It was not to provide any input—