Transport Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to our witnesses for being here today.

I'd like to explore a little bit more the co-operation in government when it comes to transportation. How does Transport Canada collaborate and coordinate with the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces to ensure situational awareness of the Canadian airspace?

I'm not sure who can answer this. I don't know if it's Transport Canada or NavCan. Whoever would like to answer it or add comments, I would appreciate it.

[Nicholas Robinson]

Mr. Chair, I'll speak to that initially.

If we do find that there's a situation where we feel that there is a threat to Canadian airspace, to individuals operating within Canadian airspace or to Canadians themselves, we will liaise through a protocol with our Canadian Forces colleagues to take decisions on what may be required to address that threat. Nav Canada will be helping us inform potential areas where the threat is located, but they will also be part of our conversation to make sure that we're able to address that threat effectively.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Have we taken any proactive measures for Canadian transportation or navigation authorities to make Russian aircraft operators aware of Canada's February 27, 2022, ban?

[Nicholas Robinson]

I would say that the notice to airmen, the NOTAM, is the awareness mechanism that Russian-owned, -operated, -leased and -controlled aircraft—for Belarus aircraft, it's now the same—are banned. It's the responsibility of aircrew to be aware of the NOTAM. It is the international norm to be aware of NOTAMs that may impact their flight plan.

We are also aware that Russia is very aware of the action we've taken, because the day following, they referred to that ban by banning Canadian aircraft as well.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you for that.

To what extent is the Government of Canada coordinating and working with the U.S. and European aviation authorities to track Russian-owned or -operated aircraft, and more specifically to ensure that compliance with the various airspace bans is being done and carried through?

[Nicholas Robinson]

Leading up to the decisions, we were in contact with our international colleagues around actions that were being considered as well. That included colleagues within the European Union and the U.K. as well as the United States. We were also looking at potential language that may or may not be used to implement those bans. We continue, even in the case of the revisions to the NOTAM that we made late last week, to be in contact with our colleagues.

For the most part, we try to streamline it as best we can—also keeping in mind our own sovereign decision-making—for aircrews so that they're aware. If there's a potential to align with international partners, we do so. You see that in the work we do through our conflict zone information office as well, trying to streamline the warnings that we have in and around Ukraine and the 200 nautical miles around those borders.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

I'm sure many Canadians would be interested in my next question, although it may be deemed a little bit sensitive. To what extent, if you can, can you describe how we defend against cyber-attacks on critical transportation infrastructure?

[Nicholas Robinson]

Mr. Chair, I can start with that question and speak within the air sector.

Over the last number of weeks, we've been informing our air sector colleagues about information coming out of other government departments around ensuring that their cybersecurity plans are in place and that they've made adjustments they feel are necessary. We also have different information sessions being conducted by other government departments with those sectors to make sure that those plans are in the best place possible to potentially respond to threats that may have surfaced as a result of different hostilities over the last number of weeks.

[Annie Koutrakis, Liberal, Vimy, QC]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Ms. Koutrakis.

Thank you very much, Mr. Robinson.

It is now Mr. Barsalou‑Duval's turn.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My question is about detection systems, and it's for Mr. Girard.

If I understand correctly, usually, when a foreign aircraft enters Canadian airspace, a flight plan has already been filed, so the appropriate authority is aware of the flight's arrival and can manage it accordingly. How do you handle an inbound foreign aircraft that has not filed a flight plan? What happens in that case? What is your role?

I have another question.

A detection system alerts you when an aircraft is entering Canadian airspace. Is NAV CANADA's detection system the one that the Department of National Defence uses? Does the Department of National Defence have its own system? How does it work on that front?

[Ben Girard]

I think a Government of Canada official could answer your second question better than I could.

The detection system used by the Department of National Defence may or may not be NAV CANADA's.

To answer your first question, I would say that there are different types of flights. Normally, passenger carrying airplanes are operated in accordance with instrument flight rules, or IFR. In that case, ICAO international standards apply. Pilots have to have a flight plan, and very seldom does an aircraft enter Canadian airspace without having previously filed a flight plan.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

If an aircraft entered Canadian airspace without a flight plan, what would you do?

[Ben Girard]

That would be a VFR flight, meaning one that is conducted in accordance with visual flight rules. The pilot would request IFR clearance. We would identify the flight, ask the pilot what they want to do and give them clearance based on our capacity at that specific time, depending on the flights already in the area. In other words, if an aircraft departing from Kingston requested IFR clearance, we would check the other flights and, according to our capacity, give the flight IFR clearance.

As for Aeroflot and flights that use an air navigation service provider, 99.99% have already filed their flight plans.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Thank you, Mr. Girard.

Next we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, you have the last round of two and a half minutes. The floor is yours.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'll pick up where my colleague left off with Mr. Girard.

As part of previous studies, this committee has heard about staffing shortages at Nav Canada. I assume the closure of Canadian airspace would put additional responsibilities and duties onto Nav Canada personnel?

Does Nav Canada have adequate resources to monitor Canadian airspace, particularly in remote regions such as the Arctic?

[Ben Girard]

Let me make two statements, the first one being that staffing has absolutely nothing to do with this monitoring and implementation of a NOTAM. Nav Canada—at the time and since then—has the staff required to implement and enforce the NOTAM.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

For the Transport Canada officials, we've had several questions at this meeting about the various ownership structures in relation to both the shipping ban and the closure of Canadian airspace. I'm wondering if someone can speak to thresholds and definitions, given that the ownership structures both in the aviation industry and in the shipping industry can be quite complex when it comes to the countries involved.

Are there certain percentage ownerships that trigger thresholds? Is this a discretionary process? Or are there specific definitions that come into play in enforcing these various sanctions?

[Marc-Yves Bertin]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm happy to get the answer started off. Perhaps my colleagues will supplement on the air side

From a marine perspective, we are talking about measures that were taken under the Special Economic Measures Act. In that act and in the regulation on the vessel ban, the legal terminology is one with respect to “in whole or in part”. I can offer that in terms of clarification.

However, how that ultimately comes to be dealt with in the context of a decision is something that I would have to leave to my colleagues at Global Affairs Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Thank you very much on behalf of all committee members to our witnesses for appearing today and for your time. It's always greatly appreciated.

This concludes today's meeting. Thanks very much.