Transport Committee on March 21st, 2022

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

There were many flights, based on our assessment, that used to cross Canadian airspace. It was between 80 to 140 flights a week. The majority of them did not land in Canada, but they typically flew through Canadian airspace on their way to other destinations. That is a significant number of flights that are now no longer able to cross.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Iacono.

Mr. Barsalou‑Duval, you have six minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Minister. Thank you for being here today.

In your opening statement, you mentioned a couple of high-profile cases involving aircraft that had entered Canadian airspace after the restriction was put in place [Technical difficulty—Editor].

Other than the cases reported in the news, did any other craft violate the restrictions?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

There have not been any reported violations of the rules, other than the ones I mentioned in my opening remarks.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

I want to better understand what happened exactly. I gather that an aircraft wasn't able to make it to its destination and had to land in Yellowknife. While I may not be entirely familiar with standard procedure, it doesn't strike me as unusual to stop an aircraft not authorized to be in our airspace and ask it to land. However, the Aeroflot flight was able to continue on its way. I'd like to know why that is.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The Aeroflot flight 111 that I referred to was coming from the south, I think Miami, and was heading to Moscow in Russia. It typically, under normal circumstances, would be crossing Canadian airspace. Nav Canada issued a warning, but the pilot claimed humanitarian reasons, so Nav Canada permitted that pilot.

We have looked into it. We are now are investigating how it happened and why it happened. Action will be taken. This was not according to the rules. It was not according to the notice to airmen that was issued by our government. That's why it never happened again. I had conversations with Nav Canada about how that incident happened.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

If I understand correctly, then, when a Russian airplane chooses to break the rules and fly over Canada, all the pilot has to do is say that the aircraft is on a humanitarian mission.

Does Canada check whether that is true or not?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

I understand that Nav Canada will be attending the second half of this committee. I'm sure they will be able to answer the committee member's questions about those rules.

I just want to be clear that the notice to airmen issued in response to the Russian aggression against Ukraine did not include any exemptions for humanitarian or any other purpose. That's why there's an ongoing investigation about what happened and how it happened.

I have had conversations with Nav Canada about this. I know that you will be asking them questions today. One thing I can say is that it has never happened again, and I am confident that it will never happen again.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you.

Many cybersecurity experts have expressed concern over attacks against our strategic transportation infrastructure. According to various media reports, it is generally recognized that most of the attacks against our infrastructure come from Russia or China.

Since Canada closed its airspace and waters to Russian aircraft and vessels, has any of Canada's strategic transportation infrastructure been the target of an attack?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, as I explained earlier in answer to a question, Transport Canada is working with Public Safety, with the Communications Security Establishment and with our partners in the critical transportation infrastructure field to ensure that they are prepared and that their cybersecurity is enhanced and ready for ongoing and potential threats to our establishments. We take the cybersecurity of our infrastructure extremely seriously. We're working with our partners to ensure that they are ready and prepared.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Minister.

Are you unable to answer the question because you don't know how many attacks there were or because you aren't notified when they occur?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Could we have a short response, please, Minister?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, we typically avoid talking about operational issues in public, to ensure that our partners are operating safely and securely.

I can assure you that if there were any incidents worthy of public reports, the committee members and Canadians would know about them, but there are also operational reasons why we cannot talk about the preparation plan and what is happening right now.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Minister.

The next round of questioning goes to Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have six minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

It's good to see you again, Minister. Thanks for engaging with the committee on this important topic.

My first question is on the reciprocal ban that Russia has placed on Canadian flights in its airspace. I am wondering if you know what impact this is having on Canadian flights, particularly those to east and central Asia, and if you've had conversations with carriers like Air Canada about the impact of that reciprocal ban.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

Indeed, it has had an impact on Canadian flights that are heading towards central Asia or east Asia, namely, Korea and India. Certainly we've had conversations with Canadian operators, including Air Canada, and they have had to reroute all of their flights that typically would fly over Russia.

For example, direct flights to India are now going through Europe, namely, Ireland. Yes, that is adding a little bit of extra time and extra cost, but I know that both operators and travellers understand what's at stake. I want to thank them for their patience and their collaboration.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The Safer Skies Forum is going to be held later this month. I'm wondering if you will be participating and, if so, what Canada's contribution will be to ensuring safe commercial aviation in Eastern Europe.

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

The Safer Skies initiative was born out of the unspeakable tragedy that happened to flight PS752, which was shot down by the Iranian military. Canada is now a world leader in enhancing civil aviation security. We've been working, along with our partners at the International Civil Aviation Organization, ICAO, and others.

We have put in place measures to report potential risks and threats to civil aviation. To directly answer the question, at the beginning of and prior to the start of the invasion, given the intelligence and the information we had, we actually imposed a NOTAM over the territory of Ukraine to ensure that civil aviation operators were aware of the risk of flying over there.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Minister, that's a good segue into my next question.

Transport Canada's conflict zone information office issues warnings to air carriers about the risks of operating in conflict zones. You've prohibited airlines, as you've just mentioned, from operating in Ukrainian airspace and advised against flying in Belarus, but there is no advisory or prohibition for Russian airspace.

While Canadian flights have been banned by Russia, this information from the conflict zone information office is also important for other carriers in other countries to assess risk.

Is it safe for commercial flights to operate in Russian airspace at this time?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

There are all kinds of considerations; however, the office mandate is to assess the potential for military conflict and security risk for those flights, and the recommendations they come up with are based purely on the information and intelligence gathered by Canada and our partners. While there are other considerations to avoid or for travelling over Russian airspace, the risk that the office comes up with is based purely on the risk of military conflict.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Moving on to Aeroflot flight 111, there's been some discussion at this meeting about that situation. I understand that it was declared a humanitarian flight by the pilot.

Are there any consequences for falsely declaring a flight a humanitarian flight?

[Omar Alghabra, Liberal, Mississauga Centre, ON]

There may be, yes. That's why I said there's an ongoing investigation. Based on the outcome of the investigation, Transport Canada will take action. It could include consequences.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

If I understand this correctly, the first Aeroflot flight entered Canadian airspace and it was asked by Canadian air traffic control to take a different route as per the NOTAM that was issued. The pilot announced that it was a humanitarian flight and was allowed to proceed through our airspace.

Immediately following that, there were two more Aeroflot flights that tried to enter Canadian airspace and were redirected by American air traffic controllers. How is it that American air traffic control is seemingly better able to enforce the rules related to Canadian airspace seemingly better than Canadian agencies?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Give a very quick response, please, Minister.