Transport Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Jean Lamarche]

To begin with, it will support growth. At the moment, Trois-Rivières has the wind in its sails in terms of economic development.

As Mr. Leblanc mentioned earlier, having a better rail link will enable us to take a clear stance in terms of demography. For that alone, the project is worth it.

The project would also make us a hub for the regions around Trois-Rivières that I listed earlier. Our city is in the middle of Quebec. As such, the project has a regional dimension that is of key importance to Quebec.

I like to say that Trois-Rivières is the most beautiful city in the solar system. It would be to our advantage if we could attract people to visit our city, or even use it as a stopover before they head elsewhere. That would put all our talent on display, including university-level research and development. As you know, we are already well positioned in terms of hydrogen technologies.

In short, you are absolutely right. Trois-Rivières would be good for train travel and train travel would be good for Trois-Rivières.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Mayor.

I have just two more questions quickly for Mr. Péloquin.

This is not just a domestic investment; it's a binational investment. It's a link, for example, for Windsor-Niagara-GTA into New York and so on. With that said, do you feel that the capital investments we make in the transportation infrastructure as well as in the levels of service—the operating side—should inevitably lead to a binational discussion, especially for those networks? That is question number one.

My last question is about high speed versus high frequency. Is it either-or, or can it be both?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Give just a brief response, please, sir.

[Mario Péloquin]

We are in discussions all the time with our colleagues at Amtrak. They have a desire to offer more services across the border. The answer to your first question is, absolutely.

On your second question, more service to more Canadians, whether it's high speed or high frequency, is an advantage to Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Thank you very much, Mr. Péloquin.

Next we'll go to Mr. Lewis.

I will turn the floor over to you. You have five minutes, sir.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses this afternoon.

I don't really know whom to direct my first question to, so I'll pick on you, Mr. D'Angelo. That's only because I think you might have the answer.

I believe that in your opening testimony, you mentioned Quebec City-Toronto. Of course, my ears perked up because Essex is next to Windsor. Now, there is a lot of discussion about the Windsor corridor, which I'd be crazy not to be excited about. I like the way Mr. Badawey spoke about making it binational. We have Detroit sitting right there. It's one of the craziest international border crossings in North America.

I am a bit confused, because I believe it to be true that there is a final report coming out, which was promised by former minister Alghabra by the end of 2023.

Are you aware of that final report?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Let me address the Windsor component that you raised. Thanks for doing that.

It's a very important part of the corridor. We know that with the amount of truck traffic on Highway 401 and with the times of the year that are inclement, especially between London and Windsor, people need a safe way to get from Windsor to Toronto, with London in between. So many people are choosing to drive from Windsor to the Detroit airport to take a flight to Montreal. These are things that don't make sense.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

I very much appreciate that.

Are you aware of the report?

[Marco D'Angelo]

Not the specific report that—

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

Have you been asked to be part of any round tables with the ministry?

[Marco D'Angelo]

I have not in this calendar year, so far.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Through you, Mr. Chair, to any of the witnesses, have any of the witnesses been asked to be part of a ministerial round table?

With all due respect, Mr. Chair, I don't see any hands up.

I understand it to be very true that a ministerial round table was promised in early 2023. We're in November, so I think we have a problem here.

Mr. Chair, I also find it interesting that some of my esteemed colleagues around here are speaking about putting people before goods. I agree, except that we have this other small problem, this thing called grain, 92% of which in southwestern Ontario is exported overseas. The question shouldn't be about high frequency and those types of things. It should be, if we're going to make an investment, do we double it so we can actually get out exports out of the country? We see what just happened with the St. Lawrence Seaway. Thank goodness that got resolved. I spoke to the canola farmers at the Billy Bishop airport this morning. They're not quite so sure we're going to get rid of all of our grain. I think a lot more discussion needs to be had around this, Mr. Chair.

I'll just leave it with one more thought. This morning, I left the Windsor airport. I flew with Porter; one of the folks here spoke about Porter. They were fantastic. I flew through Billy Bishop airport. I left at 7:00 a.m. and I was in my apartment here in Ottawa at 10:57 a.m. How long would it take me on a train under the new model, if you would, please, Ms. Toporowski?

[Rita Toporowski]

That's a good question. Under the new model, again, I would have to see what the model is that's being determined and—

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

What would it look like today? The reason I'm asking the question is that we're thinking it might be a $10-billion investment. We can't come in for a landing on that. I'm just trying to figure out what the return is on the investment.

[Rita Toporowski]

Our current schedule is about four and a half hours from Toronto to Ottawa, downtown to downtown.

[Chris Lewis, Conservative, Essex, ON]

Okay.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Lewis.

Mr. Iacono, you now have the floor for five minutes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to take this opportunity to say that I'm going to share my speaking time with you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Péloquin, do you think that building a fast and efficient passenger railway line would increase ridership and revenue, lower government subsidies for passenger rail, and also foster economic growth for local businesses?

[Mario Péloquin]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member for his question.

As I mentioned a little earlier, any service enhancements will boost the economy and ridership. Studies conducted just about everywhere have shown that if you provide people with good and reliable service between two centres, ridership increases significantly.

So my answer to your question is yes.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Great.

Mr. D'Angelo, what are the challenges for high-frequency rail?

[Marco D'Angelo]

That's an interesting question, but it's important to point out that the goal is to link many communities and maximize the number of people who take the train.

High-speed rail is less effective. The key is to have routes that are useful, reliable and available to as many people as possible, which is the case for solutions like high-frequency rail.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

Mr. Péloquin, our government acknowledges that climate change is real and that we have to do everything in our power to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. Would high-frequency rail help us meet our environmental targets and objectives?

[Mario Péloquin]

Mr. Chair, I'd like to thank the member for his question.

An efficiently operating train is much greener than any other mode of transportation between the same centres.

Attracting more people to travel by train would be beneficial to the environment.

[Angelo Iacono, Liberal, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you.

I'm going to give the rest of my speaking time to my colleague, Mr. Peter Schiefke.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Iacono.

I'd like to thank my colleague for ceding some of his time to me today. It's rare that I get the opportunity to ask a question.

We had the new Crown corporation here to discuss the high-frequency rail project. They provided testimony to say that no decision has been made as to whether it will be high frequency or some kind of merger between high frequency and high speed.

One of the arguments or responses that we frequently hear is that Canada has a climate that is not favourable to having a high-speed rail model, particularly in the east. Given the expertise that we have with you, Mr. Péloquin and Mr. D'Angelo, what would you say to somebody who says Canada cannot have high-speed rail here?

If the response is that we can have one, given your expertise and your history in rail transport, do you have any models you can share with the committee that you think would work well and that you have seen around the world?