Transport Committee on Nov. 6th, 2023

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Chair.

Canada is a great country, but we also have some of the harshest climates anywhere in the world, as far as operating trains at higher speed is concerned or even at the speeds we are going today.

There are a lot of examples of high-speed, high-frequency trains around the world, but I would say that I don't know of one that operates where there is a temperature differential in the range of about 70°C from winter to summer, and sometimes, in some seasons, very drastic changes in the same day. I cannot give you any examples of something like that. There are trains that operate in colder climates than the south here, the corridor—I'm thinking of Siberia—but they are not high-speed trains.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you.

Mr. D'Angelo, go ahead.

[Marco D'Angelo]

In terms of cold weather in the winter, you also need to think about comparing it to other modes. Think about getting to the airport and getting through security without a NEXUS card. You have dozens of people in front of you with boots, coats and backpacks. Think about the time it takes to get through security and the congestion at Pearson, at Billy Bishop and at Montreal international airport.

Today, we had great weather and people got where they needed to go, but there are other times when flights get cancelled or get prioritized, especially those hub-and-spoke flights out of Toronto and Montreal. Those suffer quite a bit in reductions of service, whether it's to Windsor, to North Bay or to Sept-Îles, for folks who are trying to connect to the rest of the country.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. D'Angelo.

I'll just end by inviting any of our witnesses today who would like to answer that question to provide examples, perhaps, of high-speed rail that is fully functional around the world with similar climates. It would be greatly appreciated.

Mr. Barsalou-Duval, the floor is yours for two and a half minutes.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm not a witness, but I can tell you that Finland has high-speed trains that seem to function well, even though the climate there is certainly Nordic.

My question is for Mr. Péloquin, of Via Rail.

In the context of building or introducing high-frequency or high-speed rail on the St. Lawrence North Shore, the City of Drummondville has said that it is in favour of a junction station in Drummondville. The idea is for Via Rail trains, instead of stopping for the night in Montreal, to be maintained and coordinated from Drummondville to serve Montreal and Quebec City.

Is this proposal included in your plans at all? I believe there had been a commitment at the time. Are you currently working on it?

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you to the member for his question.

As I explained a little earlier, the new Via HFR — Via TGF Inc. Crown corporation is handling all the segment and route analyses and will determine how the rail operation will ultimately be structured.

Our role is simply one of support, because we have expertise in current Canadian train operations.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

My understanding then is that you support the North Shore project, but that the South Shore is still your responsibility.

Are preparations under way on the South Shore? Is it still too early?

[Mario Péloquin]

Thank you to the member for his question.

The short answer is no, because the new Crown corporation in charge of the HFR project is also handling that part of the equation. We are planning to turn over the services being provided in the current corridor to the new organization.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you for that added information. So the subsidiary will also provide service in the Montreal-Quebec City corridor.

Mr. D'Angelo, I'm going to go over some of what Mr. Badawey was saying earlier. What's being discussed is a project to link Quebec City and Toronto, but elsewhere in the world, there are all kinds of continental links between high-frequency rail networks.

How seriously do you think we should be considering links with the United States or western Canada, or even Mexico or South America?

[Marco D'Angelo]

It's very important to find a way to make life easier for passengers. That means many options in terms of schedules and routes, to ensure that they suit everyone. That's the purpose of high-frequency rail. People want it to be easy to take a high-frequency train. It means having train stations downtown, but also in other neighbourhoods, in order to serve the various populations.

It's important not to forget…

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. D'Angelo. Unfortunately, Mr. Barsalou-Duval's speaking time has run out.

Finally for today, we have Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Bachrach, the floor is yours. You have two and a half minutes.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Leblanc, you mentioned that one of the reasons the costs of building HFR are higher in Canada than they are in Europe is that companies in this country don't have experience building this kind of rail system. I'm wondering how, as a country, we can gain that capacity and experience if we keep contracting out projects like this to companies from other countries, which keep that information proprietary.

[Michel Leblanc]

Thank you for that excellent question.

The business community would like us to develop this sort of expertise in Canada. They would like us to build competitive companies to undertake projects of that kind.

We may have missed the boat, when we had Bombardier as a railway company, by not supporting its development. Now that its railway transportation activities are no longer under Canadian ownership, we need to learn how we can make sure that major international players will locate product construction and development activities here in Canada.

As you said earlier, we are among the few Nordic countries in the world to have extremely difficult climate conditions. We've seen hydrogen rail projects being developed elsewhere in the world. We could perhaps test and develop new hydrogen technologies for trains right here.

So it's important to build this expertise, as you mentioned, but perhaps not in the context of carrying out the biggest project in Canada's history. It needs to be done gradually, by leveraging the local spinoffs generated by major projects of this kind.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

That concludes our line of questioning for today.

I would like to thank all of our witnesses for appearing this afternoon and for sharing their testimony.

I'd like to invite all of our witnesses appearing online to log off. For those appearing here in person with us, I ask for your patience as we deal with some committee business, which shouldn't take too much time.

Colleagues, as you know, we've distributed the committee's budget for Bill C-33. I have put forward a motion to adopt the budget.

Are there any lines of questioning or comments?

I turn it over to you, Mr. Muys.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

I will admit that I have not paid attention to the line-by-line on budgets in the past, but I do question why we're sending out headsets at a cost of $250 a pop. Do we not ask for them back? Can we not recycle or reuse them? We're spending five grand on headsets for a study on a bill that isn't worth the paper it's written on.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Muys, for that.

I'll turn it over to our wonderful clerk.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Carine Grand-Jean]

Thank you for the question.

Actually, it's $200, as written in the budget, for the headset. We don't get it returned for hygiene reasons. Also, the witnesses connect here several times with the same headset, so we don't charge a different budget for that.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

It seems extremely wasteful to send headsets out and not ask for them back. We can sanitize those. I just make the point.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Muys.

If that's actually something you would like—

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor] spend on future budgets—$3,000, $5,000, $6,000, $7,000 on headsets. It's outrageous at a time when two million Canadians are going to food banks.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

If you'd like, and if it is the will of the members, I can address the issue. I can bring it up at our next Liaison Committee meeting, where we address budget issues concerning committees.

[Dan Muys, Conservative, Flamborough—Glanbrook, ON]

The cost of the courier back....

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Is that something that the members would like me to do?

I'll turn it over to you, Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

I certainly support the intent and direction of Mr. Muys's question. I struggle to imagine a way around this. It seems to me that the costs are the costs. I think the challenge of recovering the headsets and then sanitizing them.... Probably paying to have them mailed back and then sanitizing them could cost more than the headsets. I think you get into one of these things where you have declining returns just through the complicated.... It's like our recycling system. It just doesn't work.

I certainly support the spirit. I just wonder if there's some other way we can get at it and cut these costs, because I'm also surprised by how much we're paying to get headsets out. Despite all of that expense, we still struggle to have witnesses heard properly with the right equipment, etc.