Transport Committee on Nov. 20th, 2023

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Not to be left out of this emotional moment—

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

—I will also move a motion that was put on notice last week or the week prior to the riding week.

I move:

Given multiple recent reports of persons with disabilities facing discrimination and unacceptable treatment while travelling with Canadian airlines, and that Air Canada admitted it violated Canadian disability regulations;

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Transport, Infrastructure and Communities undertake a study on the state of accessible transportation for persons with disabilities on Canadian airlines and the Accessible Transportation for Persons with Disabilities Regulations;

That the committee invite the Minister of Transport, the CEOs of Air Canada and WestJet, the Auditor General of Canada, experts and other stakeholders;

That the committee hold a minimum of three meetings and report its findings and recommendations to the House; and

That the government table a comprehensive response to the report.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Do you have questions or comments, colleagues?

Mr. Strahl, go ahead.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I have a couple of questions for Mr. Bachrach.

I understand that the human resources committee, which has persons with disabilities under its purview, has taken up this matter as well—the matter of Air Canada and the terrible situations that have been coming to light through the media. My question is whether this is necessary. What is the difference between this and what will be happening at HUMA, which deals with accessibility and disability issues all the time...? They've already approved a motion. That would be my first question for him.

Secondly, I think that if we're going to talk about accessibility in the transportation sector, perhaps we shouldn't focus on just the two major airlines. Perhaps we should be looking at anything from other modes of transport...and certainly airports when we're talking about the experience of individuals with disabilities, who are travelling through our airports and on our air carriers.

Those are just a couple of questions: Why the narrow focus, and why are we bringing it here when HUMA already has a motion that is actively under consideration?

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to Mr. Strahl for the questions.

My understanding is that HUMA have called the CEO of Air Canada, and that their hearings into this are somewhat limited in scope.

I think his other question around whether we should be expanding the scope slightly to include other organizations in the air transport space is a very valid one. Certainly, understanding the interaction among airports and the airlines when it comes to persons with disabilities navigating our air transport sector would be helpful.

This is a transportation topic, and this is the transport committee. I think our focus will really be on how the Canadian air transportation system delivers equitable services to all Canadians, and how the really egregious examples that we've seen in the media recently can be avoided and remedied, whether through regulation or legislation.

Obviously, steps need to be taken. What we've seen so far to date is just nice words. We've seen apologies and commitments to do better, but the government is in a position to ensure that this never happens again by making it very clear to the airlines and other players in the air sector that it won't be tolerated, and by articulating the standard of care that should be taken.

I take his point. I would certainly welcome.... I do think that “experts and other stakeholders” could be interpreted to include, more broadly, airports, the Canadian Transportation Agency and other organizations that would be relevant. If Mr. Strahl would like that articulated specifically in the motion, I'd be happy to accept an amendment.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Badawey, go ahead.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Again, I agree with the premise of the motion, but I agree with Mr. Strahl. This is already being looked at by a committee. We have a full slate, probably leading us into the spring. What I would ask Mr. Bachrach to consider is this: Let's wait for that report from HUMA to come out and see what it states. If in fact we want to pursue it after that, to add to the report or align with the report, we could do it then. I think that at this point in time it's where it should be, and we can deal with it once it's completed at that committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you very much, Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Strahl, go ahead.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

I have a couple of things. This is a bit of internal committee business, perhaps, but when the NDP was scheduled to bring forward an item for consideration in terms of the ordering of our studies, Mr. Bachrach surrendered some of those meetings so that we would have a more robust discussion on high-frequency rail. My question is this: Is this a new study, or does this fill out the NDP's...? We've given a lot of leeway in this committee. When a party brings forward an item for a study in their designated slot, we've allowed them to lead the way on that. My question maybe goes to you, Mr. Chair, as well as Mr. Bachrach. Is this fitting into that, or is this another study that will be thrown into the hopper when we order our studies going forward?

Just for a bit of clarity as to the sequencing, when would this come up? If we do.... I would move an amendment, after I hear that, to include airports and the Canadian Transportation Agency on the list of invited witnesses, but first I would like to get an understanding of when this might be considered.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and through you to Mr. Strahl, this issue facing people with disabilities who are trying to travel using Canada's airlines is quite a pressing one. That's why we brought this motion forward, because it's timely. It's something that needs to be addressed in short order.

With regard to the prioritization of this study relative to other studies, I'm happy to have that conversation at our next committee business meeting. However, given the timeliness of this and the priority that it deserves, the committee would really benefit from tackling this sooner rather than later. We'd be happy to discuss its priority relative to the other studies that we've brought forward.

The last thing I'll mention is that HUMA has dedicated only one hour to this topic. It's unclear whether it plans to report to the House. I think the complexity of the issue deserves more than one hour of study. Hopefully, HUMA's work can be a bit of a springboard to our more comprehensive work, inviting a larger number of witnesses and diving into it a bit deeper.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach.

Mr. Badawey.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Bachrach, are you talking about having this done after HUMA's report, at the same time, or before?

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I don't have the dates that HUMA is planning.... I don't know if someone else around the table knows when it plans to hear from Air Canada's CEO, but my sense was that it was in fairly short order. We're not going to get to this study until after the study on passenger rail is complete, unless I'm mistaken, so my assumption would be that it would take place after HUMA has had a chance to question the CEO.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Mr. Chair, why don't we find that out, in terms of when HUMA's going to be dealing with it, and why don't we also, in terms of Mr. Strahl's question, look at when we're going to queue this up? As I said earlier, we do have a heavy agenda, probably leading us into the spring.

Why don't we discuss this after getting that information at a business planning meeting? That way, we can queue it up for Mr. Bachrach and go from there.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

I'll turn it over to Mr. Strahl and then Mr. Bachrach.

[Mark Strahl, Conservative, Chilliwack—Hope, BC]

Depending on what Mr. Bachrach wants to do here, I want to get the list to be a bit more comprehensive.

I would move an amendment to his motion, if he was willing to accept it. Where it says, “That the committee invite the Minister of Transport, the CEOs of Air Canada and WestJet, the Auditor General of Canada, experts and other stakeholders”, I would like to add “airports and the CTA” to his motion before we vote on it. That would be my preference and, again, I'm open to the timing on this, but I think we want to send a message that it is an important issue.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

Mr. Bachrach.

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

I appreciate Mr. Strahl's offering it as a friendly amendment. I would accept it even if it wasn't friendly. Mr. Chair, you can ask for unanimous consent to expand the wording of the motion, but I'd be happy to see the wording amended accordingly.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

Why don't we go ahead and do that?

Do we have unanimous consent of members to amend the wording of the motion?

(Amendment agreed to)

[Taylor Bachrach, NDP, Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC]

The last thing I'll add, Mr. Chair, is that we can vote on this motion. It simply indicates that the committee intends to study this matter at some point, and then we can discuss prioritization and timing, perhaps, at the next business meeting of the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Peter Schiefke]

I'll turn it over to Mr. Badawey, for one last thought on this.

[Vance Badawey, Liberal, Niagara Centre, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We are looking to have some substance to this study, in particular, as it relates to who we should be dialoguing with—I'll say it that way, being polite here, because of the situation that happened—those folks who are accountable for that situation, especially in the air sector.

Having said that, although we can invite the minister, I think the minister has been very clear and has put on the record what his thoughts are on this, as well as his actions. What's most important here is that we actually get the people who are most accountable for this, and really zero in and get down to how they're going to deal with it. There may be some things that we are able to put in place to make sure that happens.

I think that's the crux and priority of this motion—to get to that discussion and, hopefully, get it resolved.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.