Evidence of meeting #98 for Transport, Infrastructure and Communities in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was project.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Clerk of the Committee  Ms. Carine Grand-Jean

12:30 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

With the minimal meetings that we're actually allowing for this study, I think we have to concentrate on the intent of the study by Ms. Lewis. Again, taking into consideration the limited time we have and the members we're going to expect to attend to give us those answers, I think we should in fact stick with those members first. Having said that, there's no question that, as we're moving forward in those meetings, if in fact the minister then is required to come out and clarify and/or be a part of something that has to do with the government....

I want to emphasize once again that it's at arm's length. It's no different from Via. It's no different from CN. It's no different from the CTA. They were organizations that were created to be separate from government.

I know what the intent of the opposition is. It's to bring in the politics of it. I get that. That's what they do, and that's what they're to do. I get that part of the game, but I'm more interested in getting down to the more granular side and the more business side of it. If there's a concern on this specific project, let's get to it. The only way we can get to it is if we deal with the people and ask questions of the people, and if we hear from those individuals who are in fact those who are intimately involved with not only the CIB, but again, getting a bit more granular, with this specific project within the CIB.

Once again, I apologize for being repetitive, but if we recognize, through the dialogue and through the testimony provided to us by those who are involved in this specific project, that the minister would then be needed to come out, we can make that request at that time. I don't think it's appropriate, it being an arm's-length organization, that we ask that to happen at this point.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Go ahead, Mr. Bachrach.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Mr. Chair, before I say my piece, it sounded like there was some discussion between Mr. Badawey and Mr. Strahl about whether or not the minister's appearance would be included in the motion. I'm just looking to Mr. Badawey and Mr. Strahl on whether an amendment might be coming forward from either of them, in which case I would allow that to take place. I'm happy to provide my thoughts on that. I would speak afterwards in the order.

It seems like there's a track of discussion here that my remarks don't relate to. I'm happy to postpone my intervention until we've worked that out.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Is there any clarification from Mr. Strahl or Mr. Badawey?

Go ahead, Mr. Badawey.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

I think Mr. Strahl was very clear and I think my response was clear, but I can help Mr. Bachrach along. Again, I'll be repetitive here. It's to delete from the motion any representation from the government, and if it's specific to the minister, it would delete that part of the motion.

Of course, my caveat here is that, essentially, the reasoning behind the deletion is that the government is at arm's length from the CIB—period. That's the way it was set up. I understand that the terms of reference and the creation of the CIB by the government was with the intention, as I said earlier, to accelerate capital work that needs to be done and, while accelerating that, to lessen the financial burden on property taxpayers by leveraging funds from different sectors of our Canadian economy. Having said that, while we then enter the dialogue, as Ms. Lewis intends to do, with those who are involved in a specific project....

Although I do believe there will be a lot more coming out in testimony as to the purpose of the CIB, in terms of zeroing in on this specific project I think it's imperative that we listen to the people who are directly involved with this specific project as part of this arm's-length organization, the CIB. Therefore, yes, there may be a time within that dialogue in the testimony that's provided to us that the minister might be asked to come and clarify—to give clarity to the structure, perhaps, or clarity to the terms of reference. I get that, but more than likely that won't happen because the project was discussed and the project was agreed upon by the CIB—not the minister, not the Government of Canada, but the CIB. I just think it's premature right now to ask the minister to come out and involve themselves in a dialogue that, quite frankly, they were not a part of.

With that said, I think it's more productive with our time, especially with the limited time we'll have with this study, as I'm sure is Ms. Lewis's intention—I don't want to speak for her, but I'm assuming, based on the motion that was presented to us, that it's her intention—to zero in on not only the complexities but her perceived challenges that the project has had. If those challenges are then brought forward by those who are involved in the project, then quite frankly we need to hear that. We don't need to waste time playing politics on this. We want to get down to the business of it. Those people who can give us that are the people who are involved in it, and hence the CIB invitations. We can then move from there.

Again, I don't want to be repetitive. If the minister is then needed to clarify some of those governance issues or terms of reference issues or issues with respect to the setting up of the CIB, then of course we can invite the minister at that time. Right now I don't think it's relevant. I think if we're going to get down to the project, we have to be dealing with the people who were actually dealing with that specific project.

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Next is Mr. Bachrach, followed by Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

12:35 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

This is a point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

Did Mr. Badawey move an amendment to the motion? I was having difficulty understanding. Could you read the amendment?

12:35 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

I'll ask the clerk to do it. I asked whether or not we needed the actual distribution of it, but apparently it's just eliminating a portion of the paragraph. I'll ask the clerk to read that out for everyone's benefit.

12:35 p.m.

The Clerk of the Committee Ms. Carine Grand-Jean

I won't read back the preamble, but the core of the motion would be that:

...the committee conduct a study pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) on the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB) involvement in the Lake Erie Connector project; that the study be comprised of no fewer than three meetings; that the committee invite the Chief Executive Officer of the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB), the Chief Investment Officer of the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB), and the Chief Financial Officer of the Canada Infrastructure Bank (CIB) to appear as witnesses for no less than two hours each; and that the committee report its findings to the House.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Madam Clerk.

Thank you, Mr. Bachrach. Were you done with your intervention?

12:40 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

My intervention does not deal with the amendment that is now on the floor. If I can stay in the speaking order and allow this to go to a vote, then I'd like to speak after we're done, on the main motion.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

That's duly noted. I'll make sure that you're up next after we deal with this amendment.

Go ahead, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

12:40 p.m.

Bloc

Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I suspect I know why the Liberals don't want to invite the minister to appear as part of the study being proposed by the Conservatives. I appreciate that they want to protect the minister, while affirming, or reaffirming, that the CIB operates at arm's length. I think they've said it enough times to convey how important that point is to them.

They may be missing the point of the motion, however, because they are focusing on the preamble, instead of the actual motion. The preamble refers to the $900,000 that the CIB paid in consulting fees, so nearly a million dollars. I assume the minister wasn't the one who granted the $900,000, but I don't know. Similarly, I assume the minister wasn't the one who decided who would get the contracts, since the CIB operates at arm's length from government.

At this point, I don't think we can lay the blame at the minister's door. We don't know the rest of the story. We need to find out how the money was spent and see the supporting documentation, obviously. The motion refers to more than just the $900,000. It refers to the project as a whole. We need only read the motion carefully to see that it refers to a study on the CIB's involvement in the Lake Erie connector project.

I don't see why the minister wouldn't meet with us to discuss the matter. The issue goes beyond the contracts and the infamous $900,000 in fees. The focus is on the Lake Erie project itself.

Basically, when is the minister notified that a project is planned or that the CIB is working on a project? How much did the minister know about the project? Did he sign off on anything related to the project? At what point does the minister have to sign off on certain things?

A lot of questions need to be asked. It is in the committee's and the public's interest to get answers to those questions, so as to better understand CIB projects and the CIB's relationship with the minister. The whole point is to help us understand just how rigid that much-talked-about separation, or arm's length relationship, is.

I think it would be very helpful to hear from the minister in relation to the study being proposed. Is the minister's participation essential at this point? Is it the most important part of the motion? Perhaps not, but his participation would add value to the study. For that reason, I won't be supporting Mr. Badawey's amendment.

12:40 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Barsalou‑Duval.

Next, I have Mr. Strahl.

12:40 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We're talking about Minister Sean Fraser here. He's not afraid to speak. He speaks quite well, and I think he would come and provide value. I have no doubt he would provide value to the public and to this committee. He can make the case that others want to make on the other side. He can explain why he had nothing to do with it. He can explain how a million dollars can go into a project that doesn't get completed and what he's doing to make sure that doesn't happen again because there is, of course, accountability to the public.

The public has no accountability mechanism other than through the minister and Parliament for the decisions of the CIB. They want to be arm's length but they are spending tax dollars. For the public and parliamentarians, the only access that we have to that accountability is through the minister, and that's the entire way this is set up. That's why he is the minister responsible for the Canada Infrastructure Bank, so I don't think Minister Fraser will be intimidated by this committee. He won't be afraid to come. He doesn't need to be protected and taken off of this list. He can come to explain how this has been set up.

As well, part (b) of the motion refers once again to the fact that the government has refused to accept the recommendation of this committee to abolish the Canada Infrastructure Bank. There are two parts of this. First, why did a million dollars get wasted and the project didn't go ahead? Second, why aren't you listening to this parliamentary committee, which has recommended that the CIB be abolished?

Minister Fraser should be invited. We can talk about the number of hours he should speak or be available to us. We can talk about the composition of the panels that he comes with, or what order he comes in—whether he wants to come first or last. We're open to those discussions. However, to suggest that the minister responsible for the Canada Infrastructure Bank does not have a role to play or anything to offer this committee when we're talking about Canada Infrastructure Bank expenditures, I think is simply the government protecting their minister from having to answer those questions.

He's responsible for the Canada Infrastructure Bank. That is extremely clear. That is part of the mandate. If you look at the CIB's website, there will be a picture of Sean Fraser on the front page, so let's not pretend that he has nothing to answer for here. That would be a decision of this committee, but it would not be based on what is right or what is proper. It would be a political decision.

We think he can come to answer our questions and defend the million dollars that went to a project that didn't get built. Then he can defend why the government insists on keeping the Canada Infrastructure Bank, against the advice of this very committee.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much. Mr. Strahl.

Go ahead, Mr. Badawey.

12:45 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I do want to thank members of the committee for their interventions. I want to be clear that my intervention isn't to protect anybody. My intervention is just to make time productive. We have a great deal of reports that all parties have put forward that are in the queue right now, and we only have so many sessions in which to get those reports completed before we rise for the summer. They are studies, by the way, that are very important to Canadians in all regions: the northern airline study and the rural communities study, as well as other studies. Following that, there are reports that we want to bring to the House.

I'm just trying to make the best use of the time that we have available to us. Therefore, let's do it in a very strategic and constructive manner, dealing with the business of government versus the business of politics.

Having said that, I'll go back to my earlier comment. It's not my intent to protect anybody. Mr. Fraser has the full ability to stand on his own two feet with a great deal of strength. I think we've noticed that in the House, and we've noticed that at committee. Sean's not only a great part of the Liberal team; he's also a great part of the Parliament team. His intentions are all genuine, and we all appreciate that. I would welcome having him involved in this at some point. I just think it would be best if we take a more layered approach with respect to what the intentions of Ms. Lewis are.

Having said that, again I'll state this fact because I'm going to have a further amendment after my comments on this point: Let's not dismiss the history of leveraging and utilizing other partners to invest in capital projects throughout the country.

Our colleagues, for example, the Conservatives across the way, had 10 years to do something on infrastructure. How many projects did PPP Canada work on? I think that's what the title of it was: PPP Canada. It wasn't the Canada Infrastructure Bank; they called it PPP Canada. It worked on 25 projects with $1.3 billion. Let us compare that to just under five years with the Canada Infrastructure Bank and 48 projects. Let me go back to that $1.3 billion that the Conservatives invested in 10 years. That was all taxpayer-funded money. It was all from Canadians. The Canada Infrastructure Bank, in under five years, has had 48 projects and $10 billion of investment from the government. Do we know what that turned into? It turned into $28 billion of investment.

That's the intent of this. That's the intent and the meaning behind leveraging. Once again, it's alleviating the financial burden on Canadian taxpayers at all levels of government and accelerating the capital projects that this country so needs.

We heard at committee that investments have been transformational. In fact, I want to quote something we heard from a witness we had at the committee. She spoke about this on her own podcast, The Raitt Stuff. The episode is titled “The Infrastructure Deficit: the role of the Canada Infrastructure Bank”, and it's from January 30, 2023. Who said this? It was the Honourable Lisa Raitt, a former Conservative minister. She was talking about the Canada Infrastructure Bank, and she said:

...unfortunately, [the bank] has been the topic of a lot of political discussion in the past number of years. It was not supported by the Conservative Party at various times in the last Parliament and in this Parliament as well. However, you're doing a lot of work. You're getting [a lot of] projects done, and you are, I think, filling a need that has been shown to be necessary in order to get projects going here in Canada. So tell me what is going on in 2023 for the Canada Infrastructure Bank and the projects that you're going to be looking at?

Conservative former ministers do not even support the Conservative position on this. As most Canadians know, Conservative math just doesn't add up. They're reckless. They spent more taxpayer money to get fewer projects done in double the amount of time. This is the Conservative math for us.

I'm going to talk about some of these projects that I have heard members here today refer to as slush funds. I find that pretty interesting. They said that only Liberal insiders are getting rich from the Canada Infrastructure Bank, but I want to speak about a project in Alberta, the Arrow Technology Group, which is an $8.1-million investment. It is building broadband in under-serviced communities. These communities are in dire need of broadband services, including 20 indigenous and four rural communities.

Are the Conservatives suggesting that these under-serviced indigenous communities are rich Liberal insiders benefiting from this bank, or is it that they just can't wrap their heads around how to build the infrastructure that matters?

Once again, Mr. Chairman, I want to emphasize mitigating the financial burden on Canadian taxpayers by leveraging those dollars. It ensures, as I mentioned, that what matters to Canadians is being invested in. It ensures that indigenous communities and rural communities are connected so that they have the ability to stay connected with loved ones and to create economic prosperity in these communities.

It's building infrastructure. It's building Canada. The fact that the Conservatives would insult indigenous and rural communities in Alberta by somehow calling it—

12:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

You have my apologies, Mr. Badawey.

I have a point of order from Mr. Bachrach.

12:50 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

My apologies to Mr. Badawey for cutting off his train of thought or his reading.

Prior to this I had, I think, very graciously tried to allow the discussion about whether the minister should appear to finish up, so that we could vote on the amendment and go back to the original motion. It feels to me like Mr. Badawey is now reading stuff that applies more to the larger motion than to the amendment.

I understand that he has the floor and he can do with it what he will, but I will express my frustration that I was on the speaking list. I would like to speak before the end of the meeting to the main motion, and I'm concerned that we're not moving towards a vote on the amendment. If we can either restore the original speakers list or move to a vote on the amendment, I'd appreciate it.

You can do with that what you will, Mr. Chair.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you very much, Mr. Bachrach.

I have indication from Mr. Badawey that he's going to wrap up soon.

Do you have a point of order, Mr. Strahl?

12:55 p.m.

Conservative

Mark Strahl Conservative Chilliwack—Hope, BC

I do, Mr. Chair.

I just want to be clear that you don't have our implied consent to adjourn the meeting at one o'clock. We'd like to deal with this matter. We're prepared to continue to debate this motion going forward.

I just wanted to let you know that we're not expecting the gavel to come down at one o'clock.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Strahl.

The floor is yours, Mr. Badawey.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

Vance Badawey Liberal Niagara Centre, ON

I guess that's presumptuous. We'll deal with that when that motion comes to the floor.

As I was stating, Mr. Chair, it matters for Canadians, as I was mentioning earlier, in particular, indigenous and rural communities. These investments ensure that they're connected, especially with broadband, so that they have the ability to stay connected throughout the country. The fact that the Conservatives would insult indigenous and rural communities in Alberta by calling this somehow a slush fund, as was done in past testimony, is somewhat, quite frankly, deplorable.

In closing, let us talk about Saskatoon and the $27.3 million to the English River First Nation project for waste-water treatment. This will be the first indigenous-owned waste-water treatment plant, and as more is being invested in Saskatoon and Saskatchewan, will be recognized throughout the CIB.

Is that more Liberal insiders getting rich? I don't think so. Is it real investment for indigenous communities so that they have economic development within their communities and they can ensure that they in fact have clean water?

The development of waste-water treatment plants allows for economic development and growth in Saskatoon. Are the Conservatives suggesting that the jobs created from this infrastructure investment should be lost and that those families should be sent pink slips because Conservatives want to cancel these projects?

There are shovels in the ground, and we're moving forward with needed investment around this country, but again, in doing so, want to accelerate that investment by not putting the financial burden on taxpayers. There are jobs happening in communities right now. Conservatives would see those employees fired as those shovel-ready projects are under way. It is completely reckless to destroy local economies and prevent local families from being able to provide for themselves because of Conservative ideology. The Conservatives do not believe they should be helping to build Canada, so they want to tear it down.

After all that is said, the desire by the Conservatives and others across the floor is to include the minister. On what I mentioned with respect to the history of the—I'll use the word—structure in the past, the Conservative structure, PPP Canada, the structure that we have brought forward with the CIB, the Canada Infrastructure Bank, is the same concept, with this one being obviously more productive.

If we're going to involve the minister, that's fine. Let's get him out. Let's have that discussion. Hopefully, that will satisfy the opposition and opposition members on all sides.

I would like to put an amendment forward that, if that's going to carry or if that's going to be the intent of the opposition, we also include the former minister, the Honourable Lisa Raitt, on that witness list.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

12:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Peter Schiefke

Thank you, Mr. Badawey.

Mr. Bachrach.

12:55 p.m.

NDP

Taylor Bachrach NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Badawey indicated that he had an amendment, but I guess we're sort of speaking more broadly to this topic. There's an amendment on the floor to remove the minister's appearance from the list of witnesses.

I want to speak to the larger issue. I'll do so now with your indulgence.

I think this might shed light on why the minister's appearance would be appropriate and also on some of the topics that I mentioned earlier in terms of why this is a matter of interest to me and to our party.

I'll just read from this article by Paul Wells, which appeared in The Logic on March 21, 2022. I found this very interesting—especially the last part, which I think the committee will also find interesting.

He begins:

Follow the Trudeau government long enough and you start to learn that their announcements are a shaky guide to their actions. Sometimes they do what they say they will! Other times it's more complicated.

I'll try not to insert my own opinions along the way and I'll just read this excerpt. It continues:

It's often handy to wait a while after an announcement and then check back in with two questions: “Have they really done it?” and “Should they really do it?”

Case in point: in April of 2021, the Canada Infrastructure Bank announced an agreement in principle to invest up to $655 million in the Lake Erie Connector, a 117-kilometre underwater transmission line to move electric power between Ontario and the Pennsylvania hub of the PJM Interconnection, a 13-state U.S. energy consortium.

Eleven months after its initial announcement, the Canada Infrastructure Bank's board still has not approved—

This was at the time of writing.

—its $655-million investment in the Lake Erie Connector, and no money has flowed to the project, while Ontario's Conservative government is asking hard questions about the impact it could have on greenhouse-gas emissions in the province.

“The Canada Infrastructure Bank's investment will”—

This is a quote.

—give Ontario direct access to North America's largest electricity market,” Catherine McKenna, who was then the infrastructure minister, said in the Bank's news release.

Ehren Cory, the Infrastructure Bank's CEO, was effusive. “This project will allow Ontario to export its clean, non-emitting power to one of the largest power markets in the world and, as a result, benefit Canadians economically while also significantly contributing to greenhouse-gas emissions reductions in the PJM market,” he said in the Bank's news release. “This is a true win-win for both Canada and the U.S., both economically and environmentally.”

It all had an impressive air of certainty about it. There was no hint of doubt in The Globe and Mail's coverage of the announcement. The paper's story said the power line's proponent, Michigan-based ITC Holdings, had all the necessary permits and could start construction before 2021 ended. And indeed the Bank's news release contained 13 uses of the word “will”, so it was possible to overlook the note of conditionality in its final bullet point: “The investment commitment is subject to final due diligence and approval by the CIB's Board.”

Eleven months after the announcement, the Infrastructure Bank's board still has not approved the huge investment and no money has flowed. The Bank is answering questions about its evaluation process by referring reporters to an evaluation of the Erie Connector project that's being carried out, not by the feds, but by a succession of Conservative provincial energy ministers, who have been asking the project's proponents hard questions about the impact it could have on greenhouse-gas emissions in the province.

Independent analysts and climate activists have had similar questions since the beginning. They're convinced Ontario will struggle to meet its own electricity needs in the next several years; that it won't have surplus energy to send to the U.S.; and that to cover the cost of building the Erie Connector by generating new energy for the purpose of shipping it south, the province would have to rely overwhelmingly on gas plants instead of cleaner energy sources.

Mark. S. Winfield, the co-chair of York University's Sustainable Energy Initiative, told The Logic the Infrastructure Bank seems “remarkably clueless about the electricity decision-making process and system in Ontario.”

The Canada Infrastructure Bank's potential investment in the Erie Connector comes down to a perfect marriage between a highly motivated investor and a stalled project. By the spring of 2021, the Bank was facing substantial and public pressure to make new investments. That pressure had been building for almost five years.

Bill Morneau, Justin Trudeau's first finance minister, announced the creation of the bank in November 2016. It would be a centrepiece of the Trudeau government's growth strategy, an absolutely massive fund—$35 billion—with a 10-year mandate to seek major institutional investors as partners in “transformative projects.” Once they got into the habit of following the Bank's lead, those investors would multiply the federal effort many times over: Morneau anticipated that each dollar of federal investment could leverage as much as $11 from deep-pocketed institutional investors such as other countries' pension funds. Dominic Barton, the prominent consultant who had helped conceive the infrastructure bank project is head of Trudeau's volunteer Advisory Council on Economic Growth, told one interviewer in 2017 that the goal was to bankroll really big projects on a scale that could transform the work of a nation. “Fewer, bigger is better than many,” Barton said then. He wanted transportation and power transmission projects “that you can see from the moon, maybe.”

The moon turned out to be an elusive suitor. Investments from the Bank were rare occurrences and none lured multiples of the Bank's investment from institutional investors. Slow progress led to management churn. The Bank's first head of investments resigned in 2019 after only 10 months on the job. Veteran public-service administrator Michael Sabia became the chair of the Bank's board in April 2020, replacing its inaugural chair and leading to the departure of its first CEO, Pierre Lavallée. Sabia in turn left the Bank after only eight months to become the deputy minister at the department of finance.

It fell to Cory, the bank's CEO since October 2020, to build a “results-focused organization,” as the Bank put it in the news release announcing his appointment. As the COIVD-19 pandemic dragged on, the Bank was saddled with even higher expectations: Now it was to drive a post-pandemic economic recovery. “I've also been clear to [Cory] and the board that they need to deliver in the first quarter,” McKenna, then the minister responsible for the Bank, told The Logic in February 2021. The Erie Connector announcement nearly made that deadline, arriving two weeks into April.

Part of the mystery here is why the Erie Connector needs a dime of government money. Its developer is ITC, the largest independent electricity transmission firm in the United States. ITC in turn a subsidiary of Fortis, a St. John's holding company with a steady track record of stock growth, 48 consecutive years of increasing dividend payments, and $58 billion in total assets. So the company that's asking for Infrastructure Bank money is almost as big as two Infrastructure Banks.

ITC Corp. acquired the rights to the Erie Connector project—

This said it was a 10-minute read. I'm not sure how I'm doing, but we're getting there.

—from the Lake Erie Power Corp in 2014. The project received approval from Canada's National Energy Board in 2017. But then the momentum went right out of it.

This is exciting.

“The trouble is the project has been shopped for three years and no one has jumped aboard,” The Hamilton Spectator reported in 2019. The paper quoted an ITC executive: “'There was an excitement a couple of years ago, but it's kind of quiet because it's not built.'”

There's no necessary scandal in the prospect of the Infrastructure Bank enabling a private project that had stalled. The Bank exists, to some extent, to tip the balance of decision-making on such projects. “In many cases, vital infrastructure projects wait on the sidelines until the risk profile is resolved and the business case for investment by private sector materializes,” Félix Corriveau, the Infrastructure Bank's spokesperson, wrote in response to questions from The Logic. “The private sector, in partnership with the CIB, can play a role in delivering important infrastructure. Without—”

Again, this is CIB messaging.

“—CIB acting as a catalyst for private-sector investment, it could mean decades of waiting until the risk and economics are addressed.”

Here he's talking about essentially the government de-risking private projects that have questionable merit. It continues:

As with many infrastructure projects, “there is a very long payback period for a project like this,” Corriveau wrote. “It will take years to build, and many more years before the line has paid for itself.” The demand for power across the line will depend on things like the pace of each jurisdiction's energy transition, he added, and their respective economic growth. “These are all risks that the project must absorb. The CIB is in this project to help mitigate those risks, and in doing so to make it more viable for the operator and more beneficial to Ontarians.”

The problem is that publicly available modelling suggests Ontario is heading toward a substantial crunch in generating capacity. The province is unlikely to have extra electricity just lying around, and to make extra electricity for an export market it would need to rely heavily on gas-generated power, with its attendant greenhouse-gas emissions.

The Connector would be able to run electricity southward into the U.S. PJM consortium's grid, or northward into Ontario. Which way would account for most of the freight? The Bank's Corriveau said the “expectation” is that “energy will flow from Ontario to PJM over the long term given that Ontario has a much higher share of the lower marginal cost sources of supply—which is typically non-emitting—compared to PJM.”

Over that longer term, according to the latest Annual Planning Outlook from Ontario's Independent Electricity System Operator (IESO), the output of the lowest-emitting source of electricity, the province's three nuclear-generating stations, will be diminished as one is retired and the other two refurbished.

Meanwhile Ontario's domestic demand for electricity will see strong growth as the province experiences “an emerging transformation of the economy” driven by rapid growth in everything from electric vehicles to LRT transit to electric lighting in cannabis grow-ops. The upshot: “Major challenges” to the Trudeau government's hopes of reaching net-zero emissions in the energy sector by 2035, York's Winfield has written with the University of Ottawa's Colleen Kaiser.

That's because energy production on top of current levels will almost entirely come from gas plants. “By the late 2030s electricity-related [greenhouse gas] emissions are projected to be 600 per cent above 2017 levels, with the curve continuing upwards from there,” they wrote.

Generating extra energy to push through the Connector would add to that grim greenhouse-gas prospect, said Jack Gibbons, the chair of the Ontario Clean Air Alliance. “The CIB should not be using taxpayer dollars to subsidize increased gas-fired electricity generation and GHG pollution in Ontario.”

One of the most surprising parts of this saga is that when asked about its due diligence on the Erie Connector file, the Bank replied with reference to an evaluation the Ontario government is carrying out. “We expect to reach financial close once the discussions between ITC and the IESO have been completed,” Corriveau said.

To their credit, Ontario's energy ministers have spent months urging the IESO to give the Connector project's tires a good hard kick. In a May 2021 letter to the IESO, then-minister Greg Rickford asked it to report back to him on “the potential domestic and global greenhouse-gas (GHG) impacts of any electricity imports and exports through this transmission line.” If ITC couldn't come up with a model that provides “sufficient value to ratepayers,” the Connector project “would not proceed to contract execution,” Rickford wrote.

The IESO's responses to the minister aren't public. But in a Jan. 26, 2022 letter to to the IESO, Rickford's successor Todd Smith said he is permitting the Connector project to proceed to another, final round of evaluation. Smith sounds encouraged by what he's heard to date: “The project has many potential benefits to Ontario including improved system reliability, the creation of new opportunities to sell Ontario's surplus electricity to the benefit of Ontario ratepayers by lowering electricity costs, and a significant reduction in [greenhouse gas] emissions.” He has asked the IESO for a fresh assessment of “the project's value to ratepayers and the IESO's level of certainty in the value proposition.”

That report to Smith is due tomorrow, March 22.

Again, this is 2022. It goes on:

Based on the answers he gets, Smith might approve construction on the Erie Connector, which would in turn apparently trigger the $655-million Infrastructure Bank investment.

What drives Gibbons at the Ontario Clean Air Alliance up the wall is that all of this discussion of a 117-km electricity link under a Great Lake ignores the possibility of a simpler solution to power-sharing in a low-carbon future: linking to Quebec's power grid, which runs mostly on nearly zero-carbon hydroelectricity. Such connections would make 7,500 MW of Quebec hydro available in Ontario at less than half the price Ontario pays for its nuclear-generated electricity, the group argues.

Perhaps it's time to sum up, and to suggest a path forward.

This is where, folks, I think we'll find this interesting. It says:

We have two governments making decisions, in processes of limited transparency, about an international energy link proposed by a subsidiary of one of the richest and soundest companies in Canada. Credible experts worry that the Erie Connector would drive up carbon emissions in Ontario. Independent analysts wonder why governments wouldn't prefer a made-in-Canada solution that is cheaper and would tend to reduce emissions.

All of this is the sort of thing that a committee of the House of Commons might reasonably want to investigate. In a minority Parliament, opposition parties have all kinds of latitude to haul a project like this before MPs and ask questions to which the available answers are so far limited.

The Environment, Natural Resources, and Infrastructure committees, singly or in combination, could play. MPs could approach the Erie Connector, not as a scandal—because there's no reason to suspect it's anything of the sort—but simply as a question about how to make the best choices when allocating substantial government resources in an attempt to build a clean-energy future.

The Bloc Québécois could investigate the Hydro-Quebec alternative. The Conservatives could seek value for money. The NDP and Greens could keep an eye on the climate implications. And the Liberals, who have always claimed the Infrastructure Bank was arm's length from government but whose minister was cheerleading a Bank investment before the Bank had even decided to make it, could get back into the business of showing an interest in the details of governance. All that's needed is for a few MPs to decide this project is worth their scrutiny.

Thanks for your forbearance, Mr. Chair and colleagues.

I think that spells out, rather clearly, first of all, why the minister should be part of this study, why this study is warranted in the first place and a few of the lines of inquiry that are very much in the public interest and would be a benefit to Parliament and to all Canadians.

With that, I appreciate the ability to read the article in full. I found it very interesting. I understand that now we're several years later, but this is still a matter of great interest because the Canada Infrastructure Bank is still out there. Its CEO is still out there trying to find ways to put public money into private infrastructure to help private investors make a private dollar.

As everyone around this table knows, we do not think that this objective is in the public interest, and that's why we have supported the recommendation that has already been put before the House that the Canada Infrastructure Bank be abolished or that it substantially reform its objectives so that it works more exclusively in the public interest.

I'll leave it at that, and I know we're going to have more opportunities. I sit at this table and I spend lots of time, as others do, listening to Liberals and Conservatives read from documents and talk out the clock. I thought today perhaps I would take a turn at adding more substantially to the record than I usually do.

With that, I'll say thank you again and pass it back to you, Mr. Chair.