Veterans Affairs Committee on Oct. 30th, 2006

[Les Peate]

We'd be glad to do that.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

You said earlier there was one person in Canada you were aware of who could do this chemical test. The gentleman you referred to in Texas, who was from Nova Scotia, is Dr. Fox. He has an environmental clinic in Nova Scotia, so there are actually a couple who can do this work.

Another Nova Scotian connection—and my colleagues Mr. Casey and Mr. Cuzner would know this—is the president of the Royal Canadian Legion, Nova Scotia-Nunavut Command. He is a Korean veteran named George Aucoin. He's a very decent man and a great promoter of all of you.

[Gord Strathy]

Not only did we not get the Syngman Rhee medal, but the government refused to let us know that all our navy people were entitled to a presidential citation from the Republic of Korea. I was able to get one for the president of the Royal Canadian Legion, Nova Scotia-Nunavut Command. I was aware that he was a navy veteran.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

You said an ombudsman should serve the needs of all veterans from all ranks and forces within the military. Sometimes, though, because of age they pass on and widows and children are left behind. If you were setting up an ombudsman's office, should the ombudsman also have the capability of dealing with the spouses and children of veterans who succumb to injuries or diseases?

[Gord Strathy]

We know now that the government recognizes spouses and children to some extent. If that's the case, then why would the ombudsman not have access to those people?

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I asked because earlier you talked about the VIP program and extending it to all widows and widowers of the veterans. I assume you have a fair number of married Korean veterans around. When they pass away, one of their concerns will be whether their spouses will be looked after. If the veteran passes on, who will the spouse turn to for assistance, except their MP? Now you're advocating the ombudsman should also be able to speak on behalf of veterans' spouses, and I think that would be a very good thing to do.

[Gord Strathy]

I think right now the VIP is extended to some spouses upon the death of the husband. They get groundskeeping and so forth. But one of the big things is this bugbear about marriages after 60. That's a problem.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That's a different thing. That's what they call a gold-digger fund, and it's a separate issue.

Mr. Chair, I would like to give my remaining time to my colleague Mr. Cuzner to talk about Joyce Carter in Cape Breton.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Cuzner.

[Rodger Cuzner, Liberal, Cape Breton—Canso, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

I am sorry, but I believe that the Conservative Party and the NDP should now have the floor.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Stoffer, it appears that this scenario cannot happen.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I had two minutes left and I wanted to give my time to Mr. Cuzner.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

It's now less than a minute, so we'll move to Mr. Casey. Mr. Cuzner will have his chance.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

Thanks for being here. As a member of Parliament we deal with veterans issues all the time, maybe even more in Atlantic Canada and Nova Scotia than in other areas.

How do you see the ombudsman intervening in cases in which somebody has a small pension, applies to increase it, and is turned down? Where does the ombudsman fit in? What does he do in a case like that? How does he help prevent it?

[Gord Strathy]

I guess one of the things you have to think about is whether everyone who applies for a larger pension necessarily deserves one.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

That's a good point.

[Gord Strathy]

That's an honest observation. So if, in the case of the ombudsman, he feels, “This is rather trivial. I don't think he deserves any more, based on the statistics, the facts of the matter”, then I think he would simply say, “No, we're not going to go any further with this.”

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

And if he felt there was justification?

[Gord Strathy]

Then I think this would be an ideal opportunity for someone in that position to put forward a better case. As Les said a minute ago, often the soldier doesn't present his case well.

Let's be honest, a lot of the people who went to Korea had grade six education. Now, if we were to come into this room and there were this many people, someone with grade six education might feel very intimidated. He wouldn't put forth a very good case, because first of all, he's scared to death--too many people. Even when you go into the room and they're just the three in the Veterans Review and Appeal Board, that's a daunting thing. You have these three people up front, and you look up there and you say something and you want to make sure that he smiles occasionally or maybe nods his head. Then you look at the next one, and the next one. You're pretty shook up by this whole process.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

So you see the ombudsman advocating and actually preparing a case for a veteran and helping him in that way?

[Gord Strathy]

Yes.

[Bill Casey, Conservative, Cumberland—Colchester—Musquodoboit Valley, NS]

The rule of thumb is that the veteran is supposed to get the benefit of the doubt. Do you see that happen?

[Gord Strathy]

The act says if there is any doubt, you shall rule in favour of the veteran. But who decides the doubt?

[Les Peate]

As Gord so aptly put it, in the case of doubt, fine. But who decides if it is, in fact, an element of doubt? What is a doubtful item of information to you may be considered gospel truth to me. It's a judgment call.

I would say that perhaps we should, as far as possible, use our regular appeal procedure; otherwise we'll have people going to the ombudsman at the first level, and he'll be absolutely swamped. I would think that the ombudsman should probably be a last resort. In other words, you don't have to go to the Supreme Court now if you're turned down at the third level.

In some cases it's a matter of trust. For instance, a lot of people don't trust the Bureau of Pensions Advocates. These are people who are supposed to present your case. But let's face it, they come from Charlottetown; they're paid by Veterans Affairs. A lot of veterans quite understandably don't have that much confidence in them.