Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 20th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Good morning, ladies and gentlemen. We have another meeting of our Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs. This morning, without further ado, we have the honour of having the Minister of Veterans Affairs with us.

Sir, you have as much time as you like. It is usually 20 minutes, but we have some discretion, and then we will have questions from the committee members. The floor is yours, sir.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, Minister of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman and members of the committee.

It's a pleasure to be with you this morning to discuss the veterans bill of rights, and other issues, I'm sure.

I would like to actually thank the committee for the good work you have done--all members on all sides--because there is no question that you have done good work and will continue to do good work. We take your work very seriously.

Before I get into my formal remarks, I want to introduce Suzanne Tining, who was appointed deputy minister less than a month ago, actually on January 22.

Suzanne, thank you for being here this morning. I know you will have remarks as well.

Prior to Suzanne's appointment, she was the associate deputy minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the executive director and deputy head of the office of Indian Residential Schools Resolution Canada.

I would also like to thank Verna Bruce, who is with us this morning, for her sound and steady leadership during the past few months. The Prime Minister acknowledged that on the day Suzanne was appointed. The Prime Minister thanked Verna on behalf of the Government of Canada. Verna will continue in her role as associate deputy minister, of course.

As you well know, it is pretty difficult to talk about deputy ministers and associate deputy ministers without thanking Jack Stagg for his tremendous contribution to veterans affairs. He was our former deputy who passed away last summer. I know that I speak on behalf of all members of the committee in thanking Jack Stagg for his commitment to veterans and our country.

Early on in my tenure as Minister of Veterans Affairs--I guess on the first day--I was given some pretty sound advice by the Prime Minister and those who coach new ministers, namely, that I should listen very carefully to Jack Stagg because he would serve me well, he would serve the Government of Canada well, and he would serve our veterans well, and that I would have an opportunity, knowing that Jack's days were probably limited in terms of being with us, to learn from the best. I thank Jack Stagg and I thank his wife, Bonnie, and family. That was acknowledged in the House of Commons by Peter Stoffer as well. I just want to put that on the record, Mr. Chairman.

At this point I'll turn it over to Suzanne, our new deputy minister, so that she can have a chance to put a few comments on the record and introduce herself to the committee, with your agreement, Mr. Chairman.

[Suzanne Tining, Deputy Minister, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you.

I won't take much of the time of the committee. I know it is an important time to be here, and I know you will want to engage with the minister and myself on issues that are of concern to you, but I want to thank you very much for giving me this opportunity to make a few remarks.

As the minister mentioned, l was appointed just a month ago. l have worked with the federal public service for over 30 years, both in traditional line departments and central agencies, as well as in policy development and program delivery, so I was very pleased to be asked to serve as Deputy Minister of Veterans Affairs.

l am proud and honoured to be the Deputy Minister of Veterans Affairs because this is a very special and meaningful department with a very special and meaningful mandate. I know that committee members have a really vested interest in making sure we deliver on that mandate.

l'm told that the department has an unofficial motto, which is to take care of those who took care of us. As you all know, the people in the department are very committed. They are very dedicated professionals who put the service of the veterans at the front and centre of their daily work. In the last few weeks I have been very impressed by the sense of commitment that I feel in talking with staff, people who have a deep personal interest in seeing that we do right by our veterans. I know that the members of this committee also want to make sure that our veterans and their families get the benefits and services that they so very much deserve. I will add my efforts to those of everybody in the department to make sure we deliver.

Over the past few weeks, I have learned much about the history of the Department and the evolution of its policies and programs. I am very excited about the new Veterans Charter and its early success in meeting the needs of younger veterans and their families.

This is an entirely new generation of veterans who have very different needs from the veterans of the world wars and the Korean war, and I think this new charter will enable us to really target the new needs of those veterans.

I was also privileged to attend the unveiling of the ice sculpture. I met some of you at that event during Winterlude, and this year, we'll be holding special commemorations in Vimy, in Ottawa, and in a number of regions of the country, marking the nintieth anniversary of this historic battle.

As we move forward with the veterans bill of rights and the veterans ombudsman, as well as with continuing to implement the new Veterans Charter that was promulgated last year and with meeting the needs of our traditional war veterans, 2007 promises to be a very busy year. I know the members of this committee will continue to be very active in your consideration of veterans issues. Let me assure you that Veterans Affairs is also committed to working with this committee and other parliamentarians on issues affecting our veterans, and I look forward to working with you.

Once again, thank you for this opportunity.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Suzanne.

A few days ago, Mr. Chairman, I and some of you had the privilege of attending an unveiling ceremony of an ice replica of the Vimy monument. We know well the story of the battle and its defining role in the history of our country. The ceremony was an occasion to recall the massive contribution that Canada made to the war to end all wars. Out of the more than 600,000 who enlisted, more than 60,000 made the ultimate sacrifice, and our history tells us that our nation was not prepared to assist veterans returning from the trenches of France and Belgium.

The experience was markedly different following the Second World War, when the Veterans Charter provided an array of programs to help the rehabilitation and reintegration of those who had answered their nation's call. Through the years, those programs have evolved to meet the changing needs of our veterans.

In April 2006, the coming into effect of a new Veterans Charter, the most sweeping transformation of veterans programs since the end of the Second World War, marked a significant advance in Canada's care for our veterans. It had the unanimous support of all political parties, in keeping with the constructive way in which this committee has traditionally approached issues affecting veterans.

I realize this committee has recently devoted considerable time to the study of the veterans ombudsman. I'm delighted to tell you today that I'm awaiting the recommendations of the committee on this very important issue. However, today I believe we're going to focus primarily on the bill of rights.

As members of Parliament, we receive calls from those who feel they have not been treated fairly or in a respectful manner by the federal government. Those calls could have come from our veterans who felt they did not receive benefits to which they may have been entitled. That's why we promised, during the last federal election, to establish a veterans bill of rights that will ensure that our veterans are always treated with the respect and dignity they've earned.

The committee has been briefed by departmental officials on the work that they have done and that we have done over the past year. I wanted to ensure that we took the time to get it right. Let me talk specifically about our consultations with the veterans organizations.

As you all know, the department works closely with veterans organizations, and this was no exception. In the words of Winston Churchill, “Courage is what it takes to stand up and speak; courage is also what it takes to sit down and listen.”

In November and December, the department met with the Canadian Peacekeeping Veterans Association; the Army, Navy & Air Force Veterans in Canada Association; the Royal Canadian Legion; the National Council of Veterans Associations; the Canadian Association of Veterans in United Nations Peacekeeping; and the Gulf War Veterans Association of Canada. I understand that the committee has received a summary of the feedback provided by these organizations. Their specific comments and advice are being carefully reviewed as we move forward on this initiative.

Our stakeholder groups have indicated their strong support for the veterans bill of rights. In my view, the bill of rights will not be a long, drawn-out paper. The veterans bill of rights will provide veterans and their families with a clear statement of their basic rights and what they can reasonably expect in their dealings with the department—plain language, in other words.

Specifically, a veterans bill of rights will increase the department's ability to respond quickly and fairly to veterans' concerns. In my view, it will complement the department's work by ensuring that all clients, regardless of their point of contact, receive the appropriate service in a consistent manner. It will build on the service standards that currently are in place. In plain language, in a visible and transparent manner, a veterans bill of rights will reaffirm our unceasing commitment to treat our veterans with respect, dignity, fairness, and courtesy.

I also believe the veterans bill of rights is very timely because it will support the implementation of the new Veterans Charter. As we well know, the new charter is a comprehensive package of programs that is designed to provide younger veterans and their families with the means to make a successful transition to civilian life.

Today, as we better understand the more complex needs of our clients, their confidence in our programs is especially critical. I believe the veterans bill of rights will serve to reassure those clients that the department is there for them and their families. The bill of rights will provide veterans with an additional mechanism to ensure that their needs are being met and that they will have an opportunity to take a complaint to an ombudsman if their rights are not upheld.

Mr. Chairman and members of the committee, our veterans have served Canada with selfless dedication and commitment. The Prime Minister spoke to those values on National Flag of Canada Day, when he announced that Canada's new government would be providing $5 million over the next decade to support the operation of the Juno Beach Centre in France. In remembering the service and sacrifice of those who fought on Juno Beach, we also recognize that those values continue to inspire the members of the Canadian Forces.

A few weeks ago, I was at CFB Gagetown to take part in a send-off to soldiers now serving in Afghanistan. Standing on the stage, I couldn't feel anything but pride. I knew I was looking out upon the most professional men and women in uniform you could ever hope to meet. As I often say, we have the best soldiers in the world, and every one in this room will testify to that, Mr. Chairman.

I was also proud of the Gagetown community that came together to offer support and solace to those troops who were about to be deployed to Afghanistan and to the families they were leaving behind. At that moment, I was reminded that our soldiers and their families need more than just words about a country standing with them. They need to know that Canada will always be there for them. As I often say in speeches, Mr. Chairman, they have to know we are as committed to them as they are to the mission.

Canadian soldiers are always committed 100% to the mission, and this speaks directly to the importance of what we do and how we do it. For this reason and others, I am firmly convinced that a veterans bill of rights will be a significant step forward in improving our service to veterans.

Again, I thank the veterans organizations for their strong support—some of them are with us this morning, Mr. Chairman—and I hope the members of this committee will also endorse this initiative.

Mr. Chairman, I thank you again for this opportunity to meet with your committee, and I welcome your comments and questions.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much, Mr. Minister.

It's also good to meet the new deputy minister, and we thank her for appearing.

We will now go to our round of questions, with Ms. Guarnieri being up for seven minutes.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Let me extend a welcome to the minister, and certainly a hearty welcome to the new deputy minister, and offer a note of nostalgia as I fondly recall the civil servants who made the department, VAC, the most respected of all government departments.

I know the minister is blessed to have a department that brims with the enthusiasm of volunteers and certainly the professionalism of the soldiers and veterans they serve. I do know the minister will continue to convey the committee's high regard for the work they do every day.

But that work continues to change. When I was the minister, we were seized with the challenges of operational stress injuries, and that was actually before we suffered 36 fatalities in 2006, dozens of life and physically changing injuries, and probably hundreds more individuals who will have to cope with post-traumatic stress disorder. I wonder if the minister can tell the committee what new measures the department is taking to meet the challenges faced by the veterans of Afghanistan suffering from operational stress injuries.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you.

Mr. Chairman, that's a very appropriate question because that's an issue of great concern. In fact, yesterday in the House of Commons they had a question on that very issue.

One of the things we have done is set up new clinics. In fact, in the last year we've opened new clinics across the country for our soldiers, for our veterans, for those who serve. Those clinics have been opened up in areas like Calgary and Quebec City, for example. We still have Ste. Anne's Hospital, which plays a leading role on issues like this, which has been there to play the leading role for a number of years, as you well know, Mr. Chairman. We also have a 24-hour hotline service for veterans, which is an important function as well, that is manned by very dedicated professional people to help veterans work through these issues.

In addition to that, Mr. Chairman, we're working closely with DND to more clearly identify those issues before they occur, in the sense of trends that might lead to this. I think we're working more closely with DND than we ever have in the past. I believe we're getting results from that close relationship with DND. We're committed to that very issue.

The question is, are we doing enough? I believe we are, because we know this is an issue. Not to say it hasn't been dealt with effectively in the past, but as we move forward in terms of deploying our soldiers in very dangerous missions across the world, I guess we'd expect this would be something the department would have to deal with. I believe this was envisioned by the department during your tenure as minister, moving forward, knowing full well that with your government's commitment to Afghanistan this would be something we would have to address, so I think the department was well prepared for that. I believe we are doing exemplary work in those particular areas.

One of the other things we have done, and I think the former minister would be aware of this, is that we have moved many of those utilities off base into the community, where it's much easier for a soldier or someone dealing with that difficulty to approach it. Unfortunately, in Canada we still have a resistance to dealing with anything to do with mental illness as openly as we should. As you well know, even outside of the military, people with mental illness, as we often say, suffer in silence.

One of the pins I normally wear, when I don't have a veteran's pin on, is that of the Canadian Mental Health Association. It shows the phoenix rising from the ashes, in the sense that there's always hope, there's more that we can do, but the way you do it is to address it head-on and work constructively with your clients. I think we're doing that, Mr. Chairman.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

We certainly wish you well in these challenges. It's obvious we can never do enough for our veterans.

On a more thorny subject, I have here a well-worn copy of a very important promise made. I have copies for the minister and members of the committee, although I understand every one of us has seen this many times. It is a promise that came long after costs were well known to this committee. I would ask the minister to address all veterans and widows as to exactly what they are to make of this letter on Stephen Harper's letterhead saying that a Conservative government would, and I quote, “...immediately extend Veterans Independence Program services to the widows of all Second World War and Korean War veterans...”.

Can the minister tell veterans in a straightforward way whether there are plans under way to implement this promise or whether the letter is a forgery? Or is it simply going to be a broken promise?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

“Forgery” is a word I'm not accustomed to using, Mr. Chairman, whether it's addressing a member of the committee or a member of any political party.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

But do you recognize this letter?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

It's not a very kind word to use, but I will tell you that the former minister is pretty clever in her choice of words, because she mentioned it was written on the Prime Minister's letterhead but was not signed by the Prime Minister or the former leader--

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

Minister, did someone steal his stationery?

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Excuse me, but I didn't interrupt the member when she was speaking. I would urge her not to interrupt me when I'm speaking. But if she wants to run interference, I can let her talk, and when she's talked herself out, I'll respond.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

A point of clarification, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Mr. Minister, I agree with you on this.

Ms. Guarnieri.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

A point of clarification, Minister. Did someone steal his stationery?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Ms. Guarnieri, your time is up.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

No, I don't think so. I was noticing on my clock it's not over.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Yes, it is.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

In terms of the word “steal”, her party would understand that word more clearly than I would, Mr. Chairman.

But I will tell you this, I'm not here to pick a fight with the former minister. The truth is that the letter was not signed by the Prime Minister, who at that time was leader of the opposition. It was not written by him. And it was never a promise that we made in the campaign, Mr. Chairman. But the truth is that in terms of the delivery of that service, we're committed to improving that service and committing services to all veterans.

As she well knows, there are about 94,000 individuals now receiving that service, and 258,000 survivors do not receive it.

In terms of her record on taking benefits away from veterans, it was her government that took away benefits from our allied force veterans, Mr. Chairman. So her record is not exactly sterling in her treatment of veterans and their families.

[Albina Guarnieri, Liberal, Mississauga East—Cooksville, ON]

I understand why the minister feels defensive.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Ms. Guarnieri, your time is already over by a minute, so it's over.

Now on to Mr. Perron.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

Mr. Chair, pardon me, but I had the floor; I'm taking it.

I'm extremely surprised at the turn things are taking this morning toward dirty politics, at the tone of the questions and at the dialogue between the minister and the members. I believe there's another place than here, if we want to engage in dirty politics. So I'd like my colleagues to try to remember that.

Don't calculate the length of this speech, Mr. Chair, because this is a lesson I was giving people.

To begin, Ms. Tining, welcome. We wish you good luck. I know that you have the assistance of one of my friends, Verna Bruce, so that will go well.

Minister, I have some questions, and I'd like to have a talk in the form of a question-answer dialogue. So I ask brief questions, and people give me brief answers.

My first question concerns the position of ombudsman. Our report should be published this week or very soon. I hope you intend to establish or table the legislation in the House of Commons as soon as possible so that the ombudsman position is created. You know the situation of this government as well as I do; we never know when there will be an election. It would be lamentable for us to have worked so hard and for that to fall into oblivion. I would appreciate your comments on the subject. Please be brief.

[Greg Thompson, Conservative, New Brunswick Southwest, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I couldn't agree more with the member. It is important that we move on this, and we will. It was part of my mandate letter from the Prime Minister that he wants this done. It's part of what I have to do as a minister. It's very important to me. It's important to members of the committee, and more importantly, it's important to veterans. I await the report from the committee, Mr. Chairman, because we will move on it very quickly. At the end of the day, we want the ombudsman to be as constructive as he possibly can be to serve veterans. We're well on the way to doing that, and I look forward to the report of your committee.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

My second point concerns the veterans bill of rights. At times during our work on the ombudsman, representatives have mentioned the Charter of Rights and Freedoms and the veterans bill of rights. Perhaps I'm under an illusion, but I thought I saw that this veterans bill of rights should be short, well made, included in a document that we can keep close to hand and that veterans can obtain. I think that, if we somewhat followed the example of Canada's Food Guide, that might be a style to adopt for the veterans bill of rights.

I'd like to hear your comments on the subject.