Veterans Affairs Committee on April 19th, 2007

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Brilliant.

Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Brent St. Denis]

Thank you, David.

Mr. Stoffer, please.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you once again.

Sir, on the situation at Petawawa, I was glad to see Ontario and the federal government get together and resolve that issue, but it took an ombudsman's report and media attention to do that. You said earlier that you didn't want a situation — and I believe the term was to “ghettoize” this particular concern. I'm not sure if that's the word I would use.

When I look at a military base, I look at it as having a separate identity. The men and women who serve our country are prepared to pay the ultimate sacrifice, and the families on those military bases are prepared to have their mom or dad do that. When they suffer concerns, I don't think we should be playing ping-pong or bat-the-ball because it's someone else's jurisdiction.

This is a military component, and I have always believed that the federal government should be responsible for their concerns. I know this isn't your issue to address, but I would hope that in the future we don't have places like Shearwater, Esquimalt, Borden, Valcartier, or any more reports of that in the future, and that the federal government would take its responsibility. And I would hope that if provincial facilities are there, they would work closely before we had another ombudsman's report. I'm glad to see that you're correct in that the situation was resolved.

Going back to Louise Richard again, the headline of the article says: “New veterans not entitled to Canada's federal government's healthcare facilities”. Is that a true headline?

[Bryson Guptill]

I wouldn't say the headline is true. We've been trying to make sure that the Canadian Forces veterans get the best care possible. We also want to make sure we have the right kinds of tools to deal with their needs. There are a significant number of younger Canadian Forces veterans who haven't availed themselves of the provisions of the new wellness programs, and I would encourage them to do that.

In terms of the treatment they can receive, I think we can provide the best treatment possible. In terms of the facilities where they can receive that treatment, the point I was trying to make earlier is that we would like to make sure that they're getting access not just to federally funded facilities. As you know, we only operate one hospital in Canada, so all the facilities we have are in collaboration with provincial governments. It's not just federal facilities but also provincial ones, and we are willing to pay for whatever the care happens to be.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

If Louise Richard wishes to go to the Perley to have treatment, if she wishes to go to the Perley specifically, if she requests that, would she have access to that?

[Bryson Guptill]

I can't comment specifically about Ms. Richard's case.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Let me put it another way without being specific. If a modern-day veteran suffering from PTSD has various ailments and recovery time and they wish to go to the Perley--for whatever reason, they feel psychologically or physically better at the Perley--would they have access to the Perley?

[Bryson Guptill]

They would have access—

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It's a yes or no question.

[Bryson Guptill]

The answer is yes. But let me try to describe to you what happens at Perley.

Perley is basically a nursing home. It's largely reserved for people who are suffering from dementia. Most of the patients there are 85 years old. There is a wing in Perley that is a community wing. It has 200 beds. The veterans wing has 250 beds.

If a Canadian Forces member were deemed, through an assessment process...and this is important, that it be through an assessment process. So if they were deemed to need, as a result of their rehabilitation need, nursing home care, under the new veterans legislation they could get the care at Perley.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Brent St. Denis]

Thank you, Peter.

Bev, I think you wanted to continue.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Yes. I may not take all my time.

I'm so encouraged to hear—and I would encourage you still, as a Canadian organization, to spend the time and resources, to partner our money with those in research and development in other countries. I don't think we can emphasize enough the significance of not tripping over top of one another's research but benefiting from the research that has been done in partnership.

I want to touch base on the clinics. I think a number of things have happened over the years and are unfolding now. A number of things are coming on stream for the veteran, with the Charter of Rights, the ombudsman, a bill of rights, and looking at the health care of veterans. The emphasis is on helping them in terms of early diagnosis and prevention from getting into serious situations.

As Mr. Valley and others mentioned with regard to these clinics, what about the specialists? What about the GPs? What about the staff for these clinics? Where are we at in terms of the follow-through, so that it's not taking us partway and then not having the specialist at the final stages to do the proper treatment?

[Bryson Guptill]

As I mentioned earlier, we have the ability now to hire those individuals as we need them.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Are they available?

[Bryson Guptill]

We have been able to get them, yes. I'm not saying it's been an easy task. I think the challenge is still there.

One of my concerns is that if we hire these resources, generally they come out of the community they're in. Once they become dedicated to us, they're not available to the community any longer. So there has to be a capacity to backfill for them too.

So we haven't run into difficulties where we haven't been able to find the resources, but it is an ongoing challenge. There's a shortage of resources across the country.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

When you pull them from a community, what is the reaction in that community? Maybe some of these specialists have the sense that this is where they actually want to be, for whatever reason. It may be because of their commitment to their country, to the veterans, to our armed forces people, and that's credible.

I would suspect that in a community there's a lot of respect for that, for a specialist who takes that stand. The other side, of course, is that it likely creates a vacuum within that community. How do you deal with that?

[Raymond Lalonde]

If I may, we deal with it by asking our clinics, our specialists, to give back to the community in support, in providing training and education, and working with them in dealing with the clients we have in a community.

So there is some give and take. We take for our clients, but we want to ensure that....

One of my mandates is to increase the knowledge and awareness around treating trauma and operational stress injuries. This benefits the whole community afterward.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

What you're trying to do, then, is to generate a win-win within a community and for the veterans.

I have another question. How closely related are anxiety disorders and PTSD?

[Raymond Lalonde]

PTSD is a diagnosis where some of the symptoms are intrusion thoughts—the thoughts are coming back, and you have avoidance. With an operational stress injury, it's not only a trauma that can cause a condition to develop.

As Bryson was saying earlier, the most common mental health problem in the Canadian Forces is depression. Anxiety and depression are specific diagnoses that may be related to just the stress of being in operation. If you're there and you're away from your family, etc., and you're always nervous and you develop depression, we call those operational stress injuries. PTSD is a trauma that has its own set of criteria and symptoms associated with it.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

And I guess at the end—

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Brent St. Denis]

Please wind up.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Obviously we're looking to not only deal with PTSD, but other operational stress injuries that occur. You don't have to give us this now, but in terms of moving ahead to next steps for us to make the improvement, I would be looking, and I think the committee would be looking, for some direct recommendations to follow through on.

[The Vice-Chair, Liberal, Brent St. Denis]

Thank you, Bev.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

That's just a question to be left.

Thanks.