Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 15th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we're onto the back page, “Witnesses' Expenses”. The motion reads:

That, if requested, reasonable travel, accommodation and living expenses be reimbursed to witnesses, not exceeding two (2) representatives per organization; and that, in exceptional circumstances, payment for more representatives be made at the discretion of the Chair.

Is there any discussion on that?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Next is “Staff at in camera meetings”. It reads:

That, unless otherwise ordered, each Committee member be allowed to be accompanied by one staff person at an in camera meeting.

Is there any discussion on that matter?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we have “In camera meetings transcripts”. It reads:

That one copy of the transcript of each in camera meeting be kept in the Committee Clerk's office for consultation by members of the Committee.

Is there any discussion on that?

(Motion agreed to)

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we have “Notice of Motions”. It reads:

That 48 hours' notice be required for any substantive motion to be considered by the Committee, unless the substantive motion relates directly to business then under consideration; and that the notice of motion be filed with the Clerk of the Committee and distributed to members in both official languages.

Is there any discussion on that motion?

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

We assume that once we file it with the clerk, that's the 48 hours, right?

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'll let the clerk specifically answer that.

[The Clerk]

That's something we—all the clerks of the committees directorate—discussed.

The question is—It's up to the committee to decide. Do the 48 hours start when I receive the motion or do the 48 hours start when I send out the motion for your notice? It's up to you to decide.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

I put it as 48 hours from the time we give it to you.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If he receives it two days before our meeting, that would be 48 hours.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That puts some interesting pressure on our clerk, because if he receives it and then it's delayed by a matter of hours or a day—

I think, to cover him, it's probably better if we—sorry, we're taking the speaking order; go ahead, Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

Because translation's a concern and we've just voted that all documentation be in both official languages, I just think we need to stipulate that it needs to be upon distribution.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

To be honest, I think that logically makes sense.

Is there any more discussion on it?

Go ahead, Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I thought the 48 hours was generally to provide a period of time for the clerk to do the administrative work around it, so that's why we have the 48 hours, which has usually been enough time. If there were an emergency, well, he would discuss it with the chair, and it would be resolved.

I don't know. Has the practice been, Alexandre, that it's been 48 hours from the time...? For example, let's say Roger here had a motion at this meeting, Tuesday, for Thursday. Would the 48 hours be deemed to be from the moment he presents it to you? That gives you a Tuesday to Thursday scenario.

Anyway, if there's a consensus.... Otherwise, I think it would be 48 hours from the time the member in question delivers it to the clerk, either at a meeting or to his or her office.

It hasn't been a problem. That's generally been the practice.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

This committee, to be fair, really hasn't had an issue with this. I don't know if there are other circumstances with the clerks who are with other committees that are of a different nature.

[The Clerk]

It depends on whom you ask. Some committees do things one way; some do things differently.

The other question with this motion is that the 48-hour period is interpreted as two sleeps and not exactly 48 hours. If I receive a notice of motion between five o'clock and six o'clock, I'm not in the office; I will have received it, but I can only send it out the next day. That's one thing. The other thing is it all depends on whom you ask.

It's really up to you to decide as a committee how you want to interpret it and how you want me to deal with these motions.

[An hon. member]

Quelle est ta préférence?

[The Clerk]

Well, the way I see it personally is that the notice is for members to take notice and study a motion before they discuss it in committee.

This motion stems from the House; there, if a member files a motion at six o'clock, the member will have until seven o'clock—till the House adjourns—and the motion will come out the same day, so it really doesn't matter. That's not the situation in committee; here, if you send it to me between five and six o'clock, it will only come back the next day, so it doesn't apply. It really depends whom you ask.

I will conform to whatever the committee decides.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I have a suggestion, but I'll recognize Mrs. Hinton.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I think all of us recognize how hard the clerk works, and I don't think anybody here wants to make it harder for him. I don't see what the big issue is. I'll let it go so that if he receives one late, it's 48 hours from when he sends out the notice. I mean, it's not a big deal one way or the other. If there were some kind of emergency, we could probably bend the rule. Let's give the clerk the benefit of the doubt and make it 48 hours after you issue.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Go ahead, Mr. Sweet.

[David Sweet, Conservative, Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON]

I think there are two things here: fairness to the clerk in terms of undue pressure and also fairness to those who would like to prepare to deal with the motion as well. I mean, we have lots on our plate. Some of us have multiple committees and multiple friendship groups, so it just gives someone the opportunity to prepare appropriately for the kind of debate that's going to be around a motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'm going to boil it down to what I think is the crux of the issue. If the motion is received before the end of the clerk's business day and he's able to send it out before the close of business on Tuesday—because this really only applies to Tuesdays—then I think that serves effectively as 48 hours' notice for Thursday. If he receives it after close of business on Tuesday and can't send it out Tuesday evening, then I think it has to be passed over for Thursday.

In other words, if it goes out Wednesday morning, that's not 48 hours' notice for Thursday. I think that's just a fair understanding of it.

Go ahead, Mr. Valley.

[Roger Valley, Liberal, Kenora, ON]

As long as we retain the right to put a motion in on Tuesday and deal with it on Thursday—that's what we need to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I think as long as members understand that they have to do it so that it's not at the very cusp of the end of business and you can't get it out.

[Gilles-A. Perron, Bloc, Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, QC]

You might be going toward a tougher time for Alexandre. For example, if I'm sending it two minutes before five o'clock, I'll have my e-mail proving that I sent it. He'll have two minutes or he'll have to do overtime, something like that.

I think we should be a bit more elastic and say at least at three or four o'clock in the afternoon. Give him at least an hour or two to get around and see what's going on. If he receives it two minutes or five minutes before five o'clock, he's going to be in trouble. I don't want to put Alexandre in trouble.