Madam Hinton makes a valid point as to why we would consider retired Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman. The reality is that was suggested to us by the Shearwater crew. The CO very highly recommended that we read the book and talk to him. He went on at length about the book and what it does and what it meant, what happens to soldiers when they become veterans, and the training process of how they become, as he says, “killers”, unfortunately, or “people willing to be able to kill”, and then the psychological problems after that. It was in line with our PTSD study. The CO and other people at the Shearwater base were very strong in their proposal that we at least read the book and maybe talk to him. That's why we put it here.
On the other issue, though, on witnesses, I'm not sure if you wanted...not to bring them forward, but to pull up the minutes of the public accounts meeting when the Auditor General and the Surgeon General from DND appeared, so the committee could have those things to help us in our further deliberations. I don't think we necessarily have to bring them as witnesses, because Betty's right, that sort of crosses that DND line a bit. But getting the documents would be helpful for the committee members in their deliberations.