Evidence of meeting #14 for Veterans Affairs in the 39th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
February 28th, 2008 / 4:20 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
We can't anyhow, even if you wanted to.
Oh, the clerk has said he'd actually be interested in potentially appearing, so it's a possibility.
Then, of course, we have Lieutenant-General Maisonneuve and Sean McKee.
Is there a military designation or title for Mr. McKee?
Conservative
David Sweet Conservative Ancaster—Dundas—Flamborough—Westdale, ON
Sean McKee is the commander of the Royal Hamilton Light Infantry reserve unit. Once he took command, the first six months were in Afghanistan.
Conservative
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
Fair enough.
Then we have the witness on the issue of the 67 days. Do you fellows have an idea of who that would be?
Committee Researcher
That would be the chief of military personnel and the surgeon general.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
The surgeon general. Can I just put that down and you'll know what to do?
Then, of course, we have the budgetary estimates.
Why don't we allow our clerk to go ahead and phone through this list of witnesses?
Mrs. Hinton.
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I have a question, because I haven't met this gentleman. Is Sergeant Max Peddle currently serving or is he a veteran?
Liberal
Roger Valley Liberal Kenora, ON
He retired after 25 years, I believe, with 16 years in the reserves, or something like that.
Conservative
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
Okay, so he's a current serving member. So is this one of the people we should be referring to the defence committee? We're muddying up that line again.
I'm one of the original members of this committee, as are Mr. Perron and Mr. Stoffer. Without sounding too difficult, I hope, we fought long and hard to have the veterans affairs committee as a stand-alone committee. Every time we mix defence and veterans affairs, we undermine what we spent years achieving.
So if this gentleman has something valuable to contribute and he's a serving member, I think it goes back to what I said earlier in the meeting. Perhaps this is a man we should recommend that the defence committee speak to, because we're doing that muddy line thing again.
The other comment I want to make is in regard to this Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman. My understanding from what's written in front of me is that he is a member of the U.S. Army, which has nothing to do with Canada. So I'm wondering why we're mixing up U.S. politics, U.S. military with Canadian military.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
All right, it's a debate over witnesses, then.
Just to let everybody know, it's Mr. Stoffer next, then Mr. Russell, Mr. St. Denis, and Mr. Valley on deck, and I have Mr. Shipley.
Mr. Stoffer.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Madam Hinton makes a valid point as to why we would consider retired Lieutenant-Colonel Dave Grossman. The reality is that was suggested to us by the Shearwater crew. The CO very highly recommended that we read the book and talk to him. He went on at length about the book and what it does and what it meant, what happens to soldiers when they become veterans, and the training process of how they become, as he says, “killers”, unfortunately, or “people willing to be able to kill”, and then the psychological problems after that. It was in line with our PTSD study. The CO and other people at the Shearwater base were very strong in their proposal that we at least read the book and maybe talk to him. That's why we put it here.
On the other issue, though, on witnesses, I'm not sure if you wanted...not to bring them forward, but to pull up the minutes of the public accounts meeting when the Auditor General and the Surgeon General from DND appeared, so the committee could have those things to help us in our further deliberations. I don't think we necessarily have to bring them as witnesses, because Betty's right, that sort of crosses that DND line a bit. But getting the documents would be helpful for the committee members in their deliberations.
Conservative
Betty Hinton Conservative Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC
I have just one further comment, since you're indulging me today. I recognize that you listened to a presentation, you've read this book, and you've been very moved by it, and I recognize what the title of his book is as well. But you made reference, when you were speaking earlier, to training “killers”. I take great exception to that. We are training “soldiers”, not “killers”.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
The book indicates you take young men, young women, out of normal circumstances and they become killers. It says it in the book.
Conservative
Liberal
Todd Russell Liberal Labrador, NL
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Certainly, I want to thank the committee for coming to 5 Wing Goose Bay. It's called Happy Valley-Goose Bay, the official title, close to Sheshatshiu and North West River, and it was a very valuable session. Certainly, I've lived in that community now for over 12 years, and it's great that you always learn something in those particular settings. The witnesses were candid; they were honest. There was a lot of emotion in that particular room.
One of the witnesses who came before us at that particular time was Max Peddle. Max Peddle has served in the regular forces and now in the reserves, but Max Peddle is probably one of the few guys in this particular setting who contributes so much to the care of veterans. He's involved in every aspect of their lives. He understands what veterans go through in remote settings, in remote postings. He has a unique perspective on the issue of veterans services in the provinces in general, not only in Labrador, and I think he would be a valuable witness to hear--not just for those who were in Goose Bay, but for all of this committee. That is why I thank Mr. Perron for suggesting that he appear before us.
He also shared a very emotional story about what happened to a particular veteran in our particular area, so he has something to add to this particular debate. He has something to add because we've talked around the edges of what happens to veterans in rural settings, in remote settings. What he has to contribute to this committee is valuable and he needs to be here. So I would recommend that there be no debate.
When you say, well, we're blurring the lines, just because someone serves in the military doesn't mean they have something valuable to add; therefore, they should be referred to the defence committee. For instance, we have many health professionals who have appeared before us, but we don't necessarily refer them to the health committee or some other committee. There are people in various professions who have something to add to this particular study on veterans health care.
While I appreciate the comments of Ms. Hinton, I don't believe this in any way takes away from the independence of the veterans affairs committee; it adds to the study that we're undertaking. Indeed, it adds to our own independence to call who we wish to call to further our particular work.
I would just add that Max would be a great asset to the work we're undertaking.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Rob Anders
You may do so when it's your turn. Hold on one second.
Mr. St. Denis.
Liberal
Brent St. Denis Liberal Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON
Not only would Max Peddle be an excellent witness in his own right, but he's also going to be in Ottawa. That was one of the key points. So we could take advantage of his experience, and the timing will be quite propitious.
