Veterans Affairs Committee on March 11th, 2008

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Also in the London Free Press today there is an article by a woman named Jane Sims of Sun Media that states:

Veterans Affairs Canada has warned of a looming crisis in mental-health programs for soldiers. Its statistics -- that show a dramatic rise in the number of clients with the condition, rising from 1,802 to 6,504 -- represents service personnel no longer in uniform.

It goes on to say:

The Defence Department is also experiencing a dramatic increase in the number of soldiers with a mental illness.

And they're talking about a particular individual who's had quite a concern.

When you see people of this nature, as you said, like the soldier who goes home and says, “Guess what, honey, I'm doing this and this, so I'll see you, goodbye”, and doesn't really tell her what's available at the time, he just goes off.... When they're suffering, sometimes they don't want to bring that suffering home. They'll try to hide or mask it. When you witness this, are you mandated or are you able to contact your superiors, either at Veterans Affairs or DND, to let them know there's a possible problem down the road? Or is that the padre's role?

[Colleen Calvert]

It's the family that suffers, of course. It's the family that will see it first and they'll recognize it. If the member is being helped or treated, the family may not know about it. But the family will come in and speak to us. Then we will encourage and educate that family member to hopefully help the member get some treatment or service.

We're still working with a lot of the families from HMCS Chicoutimi. As you know, that was a dreadful situation. We have a lot of families who are no longer in the military, but because we are a safe place where they spent a lot of time during the Chicoutimi incident, they spend a lot of time with us; they know us and we're safe. They know they can come and access our services and that we'll be able to help them get resources. So they work with us, and we still work with them, whether they're still in or whether they're out, which a lot of them are, and then we'll ensure that we can work with them and get them to the resources, especially through Veterans Affairs, etc., to make sure everybody is connected. But we can't go to the chain of command and say so-and-so has a problem.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay.

I'll get you next time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

All right. I much appreciate it.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I only have five minutes.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

But he has many opportunities later on.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

No, I don't. I get one more and that's the end of it. By the time 5:15 rolls around, I'm done.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we're on to the Conservative Party of Canada and Mrs. Hinton, for seven minutes.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'd like to begin by welcoming you to the committee. I would also like to make it very clear that I thank you for what you do for serving members. I think your service is a wonderful resource for serving members.

You've said several times today yourself in your presentation that you don't have the mandate for this or you don't have the mandate for that. Unfortunately, this committee doesn't have the mandate to deal with defence issues, and what you've brought to the committee today are strictly defence issues.

I have a deep-seated need to support all military, whether they're veterans or not, but I also have the responsibility to focus on veterans issues. I'm not sure whether there's anything at all that you could relay to us regarding veterans today, because you made it very clear in your presentation that you only deal with today's serving members.

The other issue I heard you raise is day care, which is a provincial issue that we have no jurisdiction over either.

So is there anything you're aware of from your experiences that you could shed some light on for this committee regarding veterans issues?

[Colleen Calvert]

There is a total lack of services for families of veterans and released and retired members. Families and the retired member, the veteran, have to be included in everything you do. That's why we've been so successful. That's why, with our experience, working with the family as a whole needs to continue in transition, when the member is released or retires and becomes a veteran. That's the key thing we've learned: don't just serve the member or the retired member or the veteran.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

We're in total agreement there.

Maybe this will help. Does the new Veterans Charter not cover what you're talking about? It is taking care of not just the veteran but the family, and that's the current serving members, the younger generation, not the traditional veteran but the modern-day veteran. In parts of that charter we're making it very clear that educational opportunities are there either for the serving member, if he's capable, or for the spouse, if he's not--those kinds of services.

Is there something that you think might need to be added? As far as I'm concerned, that charter is a living document. Is there something that you think you'd like to see added for veterans who are modern-day veterans?

[Colleen Calvert]

I think the new Veterans Charter is a huge step forward. The family does not know what resources are available to them. The member, when retiring, releasing, or working with Veterans Affairs and accessing a service, may not know that there are things available to his family. The family definitely doesn't know that things are available to them. And the family is who is suffering, especially when you're working with OSIs and PTSDs.

That veteran is working, perhaps, with a peer support group through VA or accessing different services through VA. The family doesn't know this information. The family is sitting there in isolation and suffering. They don't know where to turn for help, for resources, or for support. The more you can do to educate that veteran's family, the better.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

You were very positive about the booklet that Mr. Perron held up. Does it contain enough information, if it were to go to every veteran now being discharged, or would you like to see Veterans Affairs put out a single sheet, perhaps, to family members of the veterans being discharged? Would that be helpful?

[Colleen Calvert]

It may provide access to information to a few more people. But we have found, throughout our many years, that when information is mailed to somebody's house, people don't sit down and read it. When you have an education session or when the member is releasing, invite the family in and say, “Here's all the stuff available to the family through Veterans Affairs”. If they're included as part of the whole thing and educated at the same time, they may use the information. But unfortunately, when we get something in the mail, you know what we usually do with it.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

If I'm hearing you correctly, you're suggesting that when the modern-day veteran is discharged it might be a good idea for Veterans Affairs to insist that the wife come along to hear it all first-hand.

[Colleen Calvert]

I would encourage it tremendously.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Having been married for 38 years, I can tell you that sometimes communication between husband and wife.... It's not only the military that has problems getting the message back and forth; it happens a lot in every other household.

All right. That's a positive. We can certainly pass that information along and see where we go with it.

[Colleen Calvert]

There's one other point I want to make. I say that I have no mandate. I am not funded to provide services to veterans or to released or retired members. We provide a tremendous amount of support and services to them, including education. But we do it because there are so many gaps in the services that are out there. So when I say that I have no mandate, I have no funding to do that. We simply do it because we believe in it.

[Betty Hinton, Conservative, Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, BC]

I think you're doing a fine job serving members. I said that at the beginning and I confirm that.

This committee has heard from a lot of groups. I can't think of five we've heard from that weren't looking for funding to continue their good work. So it's not that you're not appreciated; you are. But there is literally no limit to the number of groups that could be funded by government. Thank you for the good work, though.

[Colleen Calvert]

I absolutely agree.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

Mr. St. Denis.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you very much, Colleen and Wendy, for being here. Colleen, your time with us at Shearwater was extremely beneficial, and we felt it was important to follow up.

I appreciate the comments the chair made at the beginning and that Ms. Hinton just made about the silos that divide, which is the world of the serving member and then the world he or she find themselves in when they are no longer serving. They may have voluntarily retired or voluntarily moved on to civilian life if they're younger. They may have been pushed out or were injured and had to leave.

I think it's difficult for us--and I'll speak for myself--to say that is a very strict line because one day you could be a client of DND and the next day you're a client of Veterans Affairs. What happened to you the day before affects you the day after.

As the chair rightfully points out, there was a time two parliaments ago when the veterans affairs and defence committees were one committee. And I think it's very appropriate that there be two committees.

When they were combined I think veterans issues were on the back burner, as has been pointed out. And certainly they're not back-burner issues for us; they are our mandate. But at the same time, that shouldn't prevent us from trying to look through the window into DND's area to see what's happening as these people come over the line to civilian life in some form.

Obviously there are issues that are strictly for serving members, but do you see a role for yourselves--we'll leave aside the issue of resources--dealing with veterans families as well as military families? There is a continuum. They're still the same people even if they're injured.

I'm wondering if you could speak about that transition, this passing of the baton from when the service person is in the military to when they become a veteran.

[Colleen Calvert]

I think the military family resource centres could play a significant role, because we're already connected with all those families when they're in uniform and as they transition out of uniform.

It's a continuum of education. It's mostly just education and ensuring they are aware of the resources. If they're up against bureaucratic red tape or they don't know where to turn, we can help them cut through some of the tape and get them into the places they need to be, in whatever program or service Veterans Affairs offers. I think we can play a significant role, very simply and very easily.

[Brent St. Denis, Liberal, Algoma—Manitoulin—Kapuskasing, ON]

I think you would agree, based on your comments, that it would be a way to amplify the effectiveness and outreach of Veterans Affairs, using an institution that's already in place, well practised, a well-oiled machine, so to speak. And as you say, they are your clients before they leave anyway.

I'm thinking particularly of those who suffer a mental injury, PTSD, as it's most commonly known, which I think among the various injuries--not to in any way minimize the impact of a physical injury on somebody, but it's the mental injuries that are compounded by the lack of community awareness. If you're missing a leg, that's a pretty obvious injury and you're going to have a very positive response from the community around you, but if it's a mental injury, that's not usually the case.

Because you see these families affected by it while they're serving, could you expand on how you could see post-service...if there was a mandate for the resource centres to help after service ends, particularly with those suffering a mental injury?

[Colleen Calvert]

I believe our only role would be to be a resource to the family to make sure they're connected to the right place. Because we do family peer support and group support, that's about the only role we could continue to play. It's mostly helping people wade through the myriad of services and making sure they know where to go and how to do it.

Don't give us the mandate; encourage all the Veterans Affairs offices right across the country to partner with their family resource centre, so that when they're educating the families, there is somebody from the VA right there, educating the families right alongside--a partnership. Education about what's out there, what services and resources are there, is going to be huge for our families, and that's really what they want to know--what's out there, where do they turn, and where do they go?