Veterans Affairs Committee on May 15th, 2008

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Colonel Castro, for taking this time to be with us today.

During your opening statement you indicated a three-pronged approach to caring for returning service people. I think I got the last two--safety and taking care of each other in the buddy system--but perhaps you could reiterate all three for me just so I'm clear on them.

[Col Carl A Castro]

These are in no particular order, but you did, I think, get two--first, normalizing symptoms and reactions; and second, safety, personal safety for themselves and for their families. The third approach is relationships, as in relationships with buddies and relationships with spouses.

I might have left off that third one, and if so, I apologize for that.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

No, no, that was the one I got most clearly. It's where I want to go in my question.

I think we all understand the importance of the buddy system, of having buddies while you're actually in service. I'm just wondering how you ensure that this kind of buddy system, where you care for each other, actually occurs when you return. It would seem logical that most of those people who may have served together for six months or a year--or longer--when they return home will no longer be in close geographic proximity to each other.

How do you reduce the effect of that geographic separation and ensure that these people are in fact still in contact with each other in some meaningful way?

[Col Carl A Castro]

That's a great question. This is an issue we're grappling with right now.

The buddy system, of course, is an integral part of the army culture. Looking after yourself and looking after your buddy is critical. We've tried to capitalize on that. But you're absolutely right that when soldiers come back, after three months or six months they are reassigned to different units or they leave the military, so they're no longer connected.

Now what we're looking at doing is starting a pilot project to see if we can have what's called a “virtual” commander or first sergeant. This would allow service members to stay connected via webcam, e-mail, telephone so that they can still talk about and share their experiences.

One thing we know about veterans is that someone who has been in combat doesn't want to talk to somebody who hasn't been in combat, and if they talk to somebody who has been in combat, they'd rather talk to somebody who was there with them. The reason for that is quite simple: sometimes it's painful to talk about experiences in combat. Soldiers who have deployed together have a way of using words that explain entire situations without going into detail.

So this is a very strong, powerful social support that we want to try to keep intact. We're going to try to do it through the framework of a virtual buddy, virtual commander, virtual first sergeant.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

Is there any thought being given to the possibility of getting them together physically, perhaps, in the same geographic location, maybe once every six months or on a rotating basis, so that they would actually be able to sit down for a day or two at a retreat or something to continue to dialogue with each other?

[Col Carl A Castro]

That is a very good idea. Quite honestly, no thought has been given to that, but that is a very good idea.

[Harold Albrecht, Conservative, Kitchener—Conestoga, ON]

I'm sure the cost implications would be a negative factor, but it might be something that would be worth at least exploring.

I just want to add my thanks for the great input we've received here today. Thank you very much.

[Col Carl A Castro]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Albrecht.

There's still a minute left, Mr. Shipley, if you want to use it.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

No, I'm fine.

I would just make the comment, Colonel Castro, that I think this has been intriguing. And the fact that you took time out of your schedule to be a part of this Canadian veterans committee is very much appreciated. Thank you very much.

[Col Carl A Castro]

Thank you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I'll go to the New Democratic Party, to Mr. Stoffer, five minutes.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Once again, sir, thank you for your presentation.

One of the concerns is continuous funding. We have challenges with that sometimes in Canada. When a military person transfers over to being a veteran, there's that “baton”, we call it, being passed over.

How do you find it in your system; are the resources there, or is it a challenge to continuously obtain resources in that particular field? We know we're short of psychologists, and I can only imagine that in the United States you'd be short of them as well.

[Col Carl A Castro]

Yes, you're absolutely correct. One of the nice things, though, if there is a nice thing, about the Department of Veterans Affairs in the United States is that they are the single largest trainer of psychologists in the United States. They have this very robust training program, which you obviously could tap into. It's expanding now, because of the new need.

In terms of resources, early on, in the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, all the services, and the Department of Veterans Affairs, were strapped for resources. But in the last couple of years the chequebook has come out and there's now plenty of money. Now it's training people and getting the clinicians in place to provide the support.

I think we're good for resources. Now folks are thinking about the long-term effect, as your colleague mentioned. These veterans, who become 60, 70, 80 years old, are also going to have problems. This isn't a five- or six- or seven-year problem. This is almost an entire generation problem of veterans who have to be looked after. So that has to be budgeted and resourced appropriately.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you, Mr. Stoffer.

We now have time that Mr. Stoffer can divvy up. Or the Conservative Party is next if they choose to use it, or we can zip over to Madame Demers with the Bloc Québécois, if she wishes.

I don't see anybody wanting to pick it up, so Madame Demers, the floor is yours.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Colonel, once more, I thank you for being here. Post-traumatic stress is a taboo subject for some people. We only started talking about it a few years ago. Before that, it was not talked about, it was hidden. But post-traumatic stress is not just a result of war. For example, people can suffer post-traumatic stress after being raped or being robbed on street.

The battlemind training you mentioned reminds me of budotraining that was very popular in California in the 1980s. It focuses, not on people's weaknesses, but on their strengths and skills, and on learning to use them more effectively.

Could this training be put to other uses so that our soldiers and our veterans could benefit? If people could get the information during their training in psychology, the whole of society would benefit.

[Col Carl A Castro]

That's a very good question.

I think there are other groups that can benefit from the battlemind training. And actually, other groups in the United States are using it, particularly the Federal Bureau of Investigation, and our State Department, which also deploys a lot of civilians to Iraq and Afghanistan.

I think it will be useful for those occupations in which we expose people to traumatic events. If you think about the military as an occupation and about combat as being part of that occupation, then I think anything that has those features would be useful for battlemind training. I don't think it would be useful for rape victims, assault victims, children who have been molested, because they are victims through no fault of their own. It's different from combat or occupational PTSD.

Our diagnostic and statistical manuals do not make that distinction, but one of the things that's emerging very early in the research is that these are two different things. There are the victims, and then there's the occupational hazards, like being a police officer, a firefighter, a paramedic, etc. For those folks, I think battlemind training can work. For those people who are victims, I don't think so. They need something different. I think what we're doing for them is appropriate, but it shouldn't be the same thing we try to apply to our veterans, or our occupational injuries, if you will.

I know you have these occupational stress injury approaches. And it is an occupational injury. I think that's how we have to think about it as a military, as a country. You send people to combat, and the hazards of sending people to combat are not only physical injuries but psychological injuries as well.

I know that was a long-winded way to answer your question. I do think that it does have applicability, but not across the board.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you very much, Colonel. Your remarks have shed a great deal of light on the situation. I realize that our soldiers are going through really very difficult situations because they are not used to being victims. That is to say, the difficulties are caused by the situation. Thank you for the clarification.

Before I finish, could you tell me if a group like this, the committee, that is, would benefit from going through training like that so that we could better understand how it works?

[Col Carl A Castro]

Certainly I think that if you sat through the training you would have a very good first-hand experience of what soldiers actually go through.

[Nicole Demers, Bloc, Laval, QC]

Thank you, Colonel.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

I have a follow-up question--I think it will probably be the last, unless I see anybody else wanting to speak--with regard to what my Bloc colleague touched on.

I was also of the natural assumption that some of this would be useful for other people who have suffered post-traumatic stress disorder. The one that came to mind was sexual assault victims. Of course you said that there's a difference between occupational stress injury and the actual victim. Is there something similar for people dealing with post-traumatic stress as a result of crime, etc.?

[Col Carl A Castro]

There is training. There is psycho-educational training for rape victims. It's very specialized, and it's not easily adaptable to a military population. Because there are unfortunately a lot of rapes in America, really around the world, there is a very structured psychological educational program as well as treatment therapies for rape victims.

One of our big challenges was validating whether PTSD caused by combat could also be treated with the same treatment therapy approach you would treat rape victims with. It does look like there are differences in responses to that therapy. One of the things we're looking at very hard is how to improve the treatment and therapy for combat PTSD, as opposed to rapes or sexual assaults or something like that.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

That's intriguing.

I don't have any further questions.

With that, Colonel Castro, thank you very much for your presentation. We really appreciate you taking the time and making yourself available. I know I will go to the Battlemind website and check it out and view some of the videos for myself. Once again, thank you for what you do, not only in terms of talking to us, but for U.S. soldiers and defending civilization, sir.

[Col Carl A Castro]

Thank you very much, sir. My pleasure.