Veterans Affairs Committee on Dec. 4th, 2007

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

But sir, generally if a person is financially well off, they won't receive VIP, will they?

[David Pedlar]

No. Certainly they can receive VIP if their need is related to their pension condition or if--

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

It's related to their pension condition, which was my next question. If they're not on a pension, do they receive VIP services?

[David Pedlar]

Yes, they can receive VIP. There are basically two broad gateways. Well, there are actually three ways. One is related to service eligibility. You know, you have to have the right kind of service to access the program. A second would be generally through a pension, which means that you could have a disability pension, a medical disability pension, from the department. The third avenue is through income, and those conditions can work in different ways in different circumstances due to the complexity of our eligibility. I think other witnesses have probably addressed, and the “Keeping the Promise” document addresses, concerns about the complexity of eligibility.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Yes, and you had mentioned “Keeping the Promise”.

Now, my next statement, although not for you...I'll be asking the minister this when he appears. But as you know, in the last campaign, there was a written promise to extend VIP services to all World War II and Korean veterans and their spouses immediately upon forming a government. I want to ask you a simple question: can that be done immediately? There was no mention of a health care review or an Ontario coalition review. The promise was “immediately”, and an awful lot of people hung on those words.

Obviously there has to be a hold-up somehow, otherwise this government would have honoured that commitment. But it hasn't so far, so I wanted to know if that could be done immediately. Because you've specifically stated the VIP program saves money, and so if it saves money, if you extended it to other people, then obviously it would save even more money, if you stretch out that argument.

That's my frustration. I just spoke to a lady this morning in Musquodoboit Harbour whose house was flooded out. She's the widow of a veteran who died a few years ago, but because he didn't apply for VIP services, she doesn't qualify for any benefits whatsoever. That is a pure frustration a lot of my colleagues have in the House, when you have to turn around and say no to them.

I understand you're doing a review, but I always thought that a veteran was a veteran was a veteran. You shouldn't have complexities when it comes to answering a phone call. If they call up and require services and they have served their country, I fail to understand why it's so difficult to get this through.

[David Pedlar]

My reply to that would be that a decision of that nature would be best directed to the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

That's understandable.

How many veterans and/or their spouses die on a daily basis in this country? I've heard figures of around 120 to 130. That includes, roughly, 70 to 80 veterans and/or their spouses. Is that an accurate figure?

[David Pedlar]

The figure I've heard quoted for veterans is approximately 2,000 a month of our war service veterans. I'm not clear on what the number would be for our survivors, but both those questions can be easily answered.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Okay. So when will we see the end of the review, sir?

[David Pedlar]

My role is in the area of health research, and the health research I do contributes to the review. But as far as timelines go, that is another question that would have to be directed to the Minister of Veterans Affairs.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much.

[David Pedlar]

It's my pleasure. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you very much.

Now we're over to the Conservative Party of Canada, and Mr. Shipley, for seven minutes.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Thank you both, Mr. Hollander and Dr. Pedlar, for coming again, as we had that pleasure before.

I want to follow up on my colleague's question about rural services. I also have a rural area, very much more rural--not quite as remote, though, as my colleague's. You indicated that you have already done one study. I'm wondering when you did it.

[David Pedlar]

It was a couple of years ago. I think the final report came in maybe 18 months or two years ago.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Okay. Were there recommendations in that?

[David Pedlar]

There would have been suggestions. I can make that report available to you, if you're interested.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I think that would be good. I'd ask to have that, and have it tabled.

[David Pedlar]

May I ask if someone will be noting that so I'll know to follow up?

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Our clerk is taking diligent notes here.

[David Pedlar]

Thank you. It would be our pleasure.

And if you ever wanted someone to present on that study, Norah Keating, who's a member of the Gerontological Advisory Council, was the lead on that study, which is now also becoming a book, I think, and I guess she would be delighted to come and speak on that.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

Thank you. That was just a follow-up, because I think there's always a distinction between rural and urban and, as my colleague said, remote areas, which are different.

Can I go now to Dr. Hollander? You split this, but when we talked about the nurses--and this was on page 4--you said you don't need to be a nurse to carry out most of the services that are supplied. Obviously we understand the outdoor functions, but when you get to the indoor, outside of the cooking and that sort of stuff, where there's health care, bathing, and that sort of stuff, how do you select the requirements someone has to have?

[Marcus Hollander]

Typically--and I believe this is certainly true in Veterans Affairs and in provincial continuing care systems--there is usually a process by which someone who needs care would come to the attention of the health care system; that is, they themselves might call, or a physician or a family member might call. There would be a short screening to ask what the nature of the problem was, and if it appeared that the person did have a health care need, there typically would be a comprehensive assessment of the individual and also probably of the level of availability of family to support, and so on. That comprehensive assessment done by the assessor would provide a pretty good overview of the needs, circumstances, and environment of the individual. Based on that review and on discussions with the client and the family member, a care plan would be developed that would be matched to the kinds of needs that had been identified, so essentially it would be within the care plan that the determination would be made regarding appropriate types of services.

Certainly if professional services and nursing services and so on are required--and they are very important services--they would be part of the care plan, and those services would be provided. What we find is that often they also need these kinds of supportive services, and these services would also be part of the care plan.

Through this process one would determine what the needs are and develop a care plan. Then essentially the services would be authorized in some appropriate manner, whether by providing the services directly through the health staff in the health region or by purchasing them through third-party providers, and so on.

[Bev Shipley, Conservative, Lambton—Kent—Middlesex, ON]

I'm going to run out of time, and I do have one more question before the chair gives me the signal. I appreciate the comments.

I want to go to the research you talked about, the veterans at home pilot project. I think I'm understanding the whole pilot project correctly. If I'm reading it correctly, you said that the project was expanded in 2001, and that legislation came forward in 2003 but it hasn't been evaluated. There were more studies done, it would appear, and we are now going to complete a study that is going to come forward in 2008.

Are we talking about the same thing?

[Marcus Hollander]

Yes, we're talking about the same thing.