Veterans Affairs Committee on May 6th, 2009

[Kathy Darte]

We talked a little bit about this earlier. As we well know, there are many significant physical injuries as a result of Afghanistan. We're looking to this: can we use our peer support model to assist them? A couple of years back we probably didn't think we would be looking in that direction, but we are.

We're also looking to focus on exporting our model, certainly, and not only outside our country but within our own country. I think--and certainly Major Le Beau agrees with me--our communities that are struggling with mental health issues can benefit from our model of peer support.

We were very proud to be part of a recommendation in the report on mental health and addictions in Canada, which was done by Michael Kirby and a Senate committee a few years ago. We became a best-practice recommendation. It was recommended at that time that the federal government look at paid peer support workers, because there aren't a lot of paid peer support workers in communities. There's a lot of peer support and there are a lot of peer support programs, but they're run on volunteers. This is a program where the government has paid peer support workers.

There is some movement and discussion in that area, where other government departments as well as others outside of government departments can look at our model. Also, we are continuing not to work in isolation. We will work with others, so that everybody in the continuum of care works together for the overall benefit of our members, veterans, and families.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Lobb.

Mr. Carrier, you have five minutes.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon, ladies. I am sitting on the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs for the first time in my life. I am replacing someone and I am glad to be part of such an important debate. I thank you for coming, and above all, I congratulate you for the work that you are doing, I am convinced that it is of crucial importance. I hope that you realize the importance of your work.

Earlier, I had questions about training, that were partially answered. I believe that all coordinators and peers get training, but I am convinced that the problems you are facing can go beyond the level of experience or knowledge that you have acquired. I see that you have a multi-disciplinary team. Does this team meet the needs?

Our common objective is to improve the condition of people suffering from operational stress. In general, are there enough resources? Do you have enough funding or could you do better with more support?

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

Thank you for the question, Mr. Cormier.

I will begin by answering the question about resources, because it was already put twice and it has not been answered yet.

The resources for the Social Support Program have increased on a yearly basis ever since the program began. Our budget has never been cut. One of our greatest challenges is to meet the demand, and as we are victims of our own success, we do not always succeed in doing that. We need time to grow. In 2002, we had a total workforce of four persons, and now we have more than 40. Our growth calls for more development of supervision, of delivery of training and support to caregivers. We also have to develop a larger management structure.

In a certain sense, I anticipate that we will continue growing for some time. Even if the forces could withdraw from Afghanistan in 2011, we are not expecting any decrease in demand. To the contrary, we are expecting that many returning soldiers who have ignored their symptoms during a period of time will need us.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

You say that you are victims of your own success. If you are succeeding, it is because you are realizing that the demand is great. We cannot really be satisfied with this kind of success. There are still many needs to be met. Finally, you say that you need more money to meet the needs of all the soldiers coming back from combat.

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

Yes. Let me connect this to what was said earlier. We are one element in a continuum of services. For us, for Cyndi and Laryssa, it is important that we can refer people to mental health professionals who can provide services. In Canada, there is a shortage of mental health professionals in various sectors. We have the same problem.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

Does all the experience that you are acquiring on the ground allow you to identify the qualities that are required to become a soldier and the various weaknesses that we all have within us and that we suffer from in combat situations? Does it help you to make a better selection so as to prevent returning soldiers from suffering from post-operational stress symptoms?

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

You are talking about recruiting.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

I said selection, but I was thinking of recruitment.

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

When members of the Canadian armed forces are recruited, there is no psychological assessment. There are psychological evaluations of cognitive skills and other skills, but there is no screening with regard to mental health.

[Robert Carrier, Bloc, Alfred-Pellan, QC]

This seems to me like a great oversight, because post-operational stress is the worst thing that can ever happen to a soldier. The death of a soldier is a serious thing, and it is recognized as such, but those who suffer from post-operational stress will suffer from it for another 10 or 20 years, perhaps for the rest of their lives.

You should be able to provide the information that you gather on the ground, so as to identify weaknesses in the people whom you recruit.

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

I am a military personnel selection officer by trade. Thus, I am somewhat familiar with the selection process.

Any selection tool implemented at recruitment must allow us to anticipate certain things with a certain degree of certainty. It is not necessarily easy to determine who will develop operational stress injury. To my knowledge, there is no tool that would allow us to do that.

I know that the people in the Canadian armed forces have wondered whether we should develop recruiting tools. It is true that there are none at this time. Nevertheless, we do checkups before deployment. The soldier must meet a social worker before being deployed and make sure that his medical tests are completed. He must also meet the physical requirements. This stage involves another, micro-selection process.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Carrier.

Now we're on to Madam O'Neill-Gordon, for five minutes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

First I want to thank you all for being here this afternoon and sharing your story with us. I congratulate you on the fine work you do. I can certainly see why other countries are reaching out for your information.

I was wondering if you could elaborate a little bit as to what started this, if you had any one action or experience that really caused the formation of OSISS. How long has it been in existence?

[Kathy Darte]

I will respond to that question.

It was a vision of Lieutenant-Colonel Stéphane Grenier, a soldier who has post-traumatic stress disorder. In 2001 he presented his vision to senior management in National Defence. He was told that it sounded like a really good concept and was asked to go put pen to paper and come back and they'd see where to go from there. That's what happened. He put pen to paper. He did a lot of research.

Speaking of other countries, when Stéphane was designing the program he did look to other countries and other models, and unfortunately he didn't find anything. There was no template that you could pull and start from. It had to start at the grassroots, because he didn't find anything else out there. So he did that, and it was accepted by his senior leadership in the spring of 2001.

That's when it started. It started with four people who were hired later on that fall, and they started to work in the winter of 2002. We've grown considerably.

What was your second question?

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I just wondered if there was one crisis or something that caused it to start. Mind you, I missed the first part, so once I hear the name, I can put it all together. I think you probably touched on that earlier, before I came in.

My other question was that you mentioned how long it takes, that it's sometimes around seven years before a guy or a gal may reach out for help. Is there any limit to the time they have after they've been home? If it's many years later, will they still be able to reach out and get this help?

[Kathy Darte]

Yes, of course. There's no time limit.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

I too have experienced children missing their parent while away, and the children receiving the support that they needed from the schools and overcoming this. But later on, you may see that that child may resort to the same actions.

I'm wondering, if it's now junior high and you received this case in primary school, can they also go back and start again? Is there help to offer them the second time around?

[Kathy Darte]

Yes.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

There's no end, for any of the family?

[Kathy Darte]

No. When someone comes forward for help, there's really no time limit on that. It's needs-based; if someone needs something. You look at the needs and try to find the resources, whether they're in our own departments or whether we have to look to the community, because the community may have their resources.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

So even if he has overcome the first setback, it could still come up again later on in junior high or high school, and that service would still be there.

[Kathy Darte]

Yes, it's still there.

[Maj Mariane Le Beau]

If I may just clarify something, when we said it's seven years before people seek out help, we meant it used to be that. We're talking about early 2002. We're not talking about today.

[Tilly O'Neill-Gordon, Conservative, Miramichi, NB]

Yes, I understand that.