Veterans Affairs Committee on June 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Ladies and gentlemen, we are beginning our twentieth meeting of the veterans affairs committee. We're starting substantially late because of the votes, so we want to get going as quickly as possible.

I understand that in his opening comments Mr. Hillier would also like to make some comments referring to our previous meeting.

Mr. Hillier, the floor is yours.

[Keith Hillier, Assistant Deputy Minister, Service Delivery and Commemoration, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to report back on a couple of items that were raised and also to provide a clarification to this committee. After reviewing the transcript, and I refer particularly to an exchange, Mr. Chair, that you and I had towards the end of the meeting, I'd like to clarify. There seemed to be some question around reports and observation papers and such things. I would like to put on the record a clarification.

First of all, as I noted in response to your question, the ombudsman contacted me in the vicinity of the late summer or fall, and that was via telephone. During the fall months, the department was working on an analysis, or what one might call a decision/policy paper, with respect to homelessness. At that time, the communication between me and the ombudsman was by phone. As things developed, there were ongoing discussions between the ombudsman's staff, as I understand, and staff of the department. In fact, it was in February 2009 that the ombudsman submitted a paper to the department through the policy arm of the department, and the department provided a response to the ombudsman in March.

I want to clarify, just for greater certainty, that among the numbers of papers we have received from the ombudsman we received a paper with respect to exceptional incapacity, the SISIP, occupational stress injuries, and homelessness, and a report that the ombudsman has referred to on funerals and burials. When you posed the questions to me, I was responding on the basis of when I became involved and of what had been submitted to me. I wanted to clarify with respect to that.

With respect to the issue of the number of calls being handed off to the department, I went back to my staff. It's very difficult to give any number—I don't want to mislead the committee, Mr. Chairman—because there are no statistics kept. These calls are ongoing on what I would call a rather informal basis. The ombudsman's staff have the phone directory of the staff. They have the names of the particular experts.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

These are the hot transfers?

[Keith Hillier]

That's right.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Andrews, this was your question.

[Keith Hillier]

I went back to my staff and asked whether we could come up with some estimate of the number of calls that might be transferred, i.e., of hot calls from the ombudsman.

It's virtually impossible to give a number, because the ombudsman's staff, as I testified, has complete access to the telephone directory of the department and of the experts. I can confirm the number of 375 calls that we know we responded to in a more official capacity, but if I were to give a number here, it would be no more than a guesstimate. I think that's probably not particularly useful to members.

These are occurring on an ongoing basis. That was the whole premise, that the ombudsman has access to the full staff of the department. To put it in perspective, we have about 125 agents who operate through our national call centre alone and about another 75 people who work in our operations and approval. It wouldn't be a good number, and I'd rather say I don't have a statistic than provide a number that in fact may be off-base.

With respect to the issue of “no fixed address”, I went back and we had a discussion about it. It's not specifically coded. To determine how many we have, we would have to manually go through the 220,000 on the database. The triggers are such things as that various addresses are known to the area counsellors to be, for example, missions and/or residences. In that regard, I can tell you that in some cases, because of the exceptional circumstances of some veterans, their cheques.... We try to send them through direct deposit, but in a very small number of cases, the cheques are delivered to the district office, and the client will come in to the district office to pick them up. We usually try to do that as we're helping to bridge them. In some cases, because of their circumstances, they're not able to open an account in a bank, as you and I would know it.

I wanted, Mr. Chairman, first, to provide a clarification so that the sequence of events was clear, and second, to provide the statistics that had been requested at the last meeting.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much, Mr. Hillier.

I don't want to presuppose what the committee would find in a report, but just to give you a heads up, this is probably a piece of data that should be collected. Having the number of those who might be of no fixed address would, I think, be important.

Do you have some opening remarks on the report on plans and priorities, Mr. Hillier? Mr. Herbert has? Okay.

[Ron Herbert, Assistant Deputy Minister, Corporate Services Branch, Department of Veterans Affairs]

Mr. Chair, I know I speak for my colleagues here today when I thank you for the opportunity to discuss Veterans Affairs Canada's strategic direction over the next few years.

Members of this committee have spent a great deal of time with our staff, both here in committee meetings and in Charlottetown, to learn about our department, the challenges we face, and the services we offer. I think it has been valuable for both you and our department as we work towards a common goal of providing the best possible programs and services to the men and women who have served our country.

Today we'll discuss those challenges and how we plan to meet them with programs and services that respond to the changing needs of our veterans today and into the future. We'll talk about our key priorities and our plan of action. I hope to keep my remarks fairly brief so that we have plenty of time to respond to any questions you may have.

I consider myself very fortunate, Mr. Chair, to work for a department with a truly noble raison d'être. Simply put, Veterans Affairs Canada exists to repay the nation's debt of gratitude to those whose legacy is the peace and security we continue to enjoy as Canadians. It is a clear, compelling mandate for the 4,000-plus employees who serve our portfolio.

VAC extends programs and services to traditional veterans as well as to modern veterans, wherever and whenever they need them, at every stage of their lives.

From the recent-serving CF member taking the difficult transition to civilian life after gruelling deployments in Afghanistan, or the injured reservist needing rehabilitation and support, to the Second World War veteran who needs residential care, or the surviving elderly spouse who needs assistance to remain at home, VAC has developed programs that are as diverse as the clientele we serve. The department continues to evolve to meet the new challenges faced by our returning veterans and their families.

Mr. Chair, Canadians have deep respect for the role that Canada's veterans have played in forging our nation and for the contributions of our men and women who serve today. Veterans Affairs Canada works with veterans' organizations, community groups, and citizens to remember our country's heroes through remembrance ceremonies and commemorative events both in Canada and on the world stage.

In 2007-08, Veterans Affairs Canada broadcast a remembrance vignette during Veterans' Week. Again this year, as part of a whole-of-government approach to the 2009 remembrance campaign, the department will lead the Government of Canada in calling Canadians to action, remembering and honouring the sacrifices and contributions of our traditional and modern-day veterans.

Our employees are our greatest strength. These people are committed to their work, they are proud of it and they have respect for all Canadian veterans. I know that over the past months, committee members met some of our employees and they can bear witness to the commitment with which we carry out Canada's obligations toward our veterans.

Mr. Chair, Veterans Affairs Canada is at a crossroads. Along with the decline in the number of traditional veterans requiring care, there are increasing numbers of modern-day veterans with varied care and support needs. As we work to provide effective programs and services for our veterans, RCMP, and other clients, we find ourselves straddling the past and the future.

Our traditional veterans face new challenges with age. Our residential care and our in-home assistance and health care programs are helping provide veterans and their families with the care they need to live out their lives with respect, comfort, dignity, and honour.

Our modern-day veterans have access to programs that focus on injury rehabilitation, job placement, help with occupational stress, and benefits and services that provide the support they need. Through the new veterans charter, we will continue to find new ways to help these heroes return to their homes, communities, and civilian life with care and recognition tailored to their unique needs.

Our department continues to support families. Families are encouraged to participate along with the CF member in a transition interview. Individual family counselling is available through the VAC assistance line, one of eight operational stress injury clinics we currently have open, or the operational stress injury social support program.

In addition to group health insurance, families may qualify for the suite of new veterans charter programs, including vocational assistance and protection from earnings loss, if the CF member is unable to participate.

Mr. Chair, I'll stop here and ask whether you would like me to take you through the deck—I know members have the deck—or you would like to just move to questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I think we'll move to questions right now. If members have specific questions around them, you can release an in-depth portion of the deck.

Mr. Gaudet has already indicated that we only have really 35 minutes. So we'll go with five minutes as an initial round, and then we'll see where we stand after that. We might have to go to one single question after that.

For the Liberal Party, we have Mr. Andrews for five minutes, please.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you very much for coming in again today and for your dedication to the department.

I have a couple of questions on some differences between what you've got in the deck and what our analysts have provided us on some of the numbers on the estimates.

First, in the table that our analyst has provided us, which comes from the expenditures and the main estimates, there was no figure there for the internal services for 2008-09. Then in 2009-10 there is a figure of $82 million. That's the same as on program activity number five. I was wondering why we didn't see it in 2008-09 and now it's there in 2009-10.

[Ron Herbert]

In 2008-09 the amount for internal services was apportioned across all of the programs. This is the first year it has been broken out as a separate item. That was really for transparency in terms of what are the costs of the overhead programs like finance, human resources, communications, etc. In the past it was actually apportioned; this year it's a separate number.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

So you're not spending any more on it, it's an accounting device.

[Ron Herbert]

It's the way it's being displayed, a display change.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Okay, that's fair enough. That answers that question.

To the Remembrance Day part on strategic outcome, number two. Again the main estimates show that $50.6 million for last year, 2008-09, and this year it's $44.8 million. You've shown it on your deck as $44.8 million across the board. Is it a decrease in remembrance services?

[Ron Herbert]

Actually, there is a reduction from last year to this year. Additional moneys were carried over from the 2007-08 fiscal year that were allocated to remembrance programming last year. It was about $1.8 million for the pilgrimage that went to Korea. There were some projects that had not been finished the previous year and the moneys were carried forward. It was moneys that were carried forward to last year. That work is finished, and it's not necessary this year. So yes, there is a reduction, but it is a planned reduction based on carryover costs from 2007-08.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

There's only that one example you gave. Is there anything else there that was part of the carryover?

[Ron Herbert]

Yes, the pilgrimage, there were projects. There was the Green Park project in London. There was work at Vimy on the septic tanks, a septic system that was put in. There were some moneys received from Heritage. Let me see, what else do we have? The Korean website work that was done. There was $1 million there and $1.8 million on the pilgrimage, plus some other small numbers, which totalled pretty close to $3.2 million that I have here.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Our records show the difference of $6.2 million.

[Ron Herbert]

Part of the difference as well would be the numbers that are shown for forecasted spending. The RPP would have taken out the amounts for the internal services on this document and they would be shown on item number five for last year, I believe. If we move and look at it, yes, it shows $88.5 million. Although it wasn't in the main estimate numbers, it has been broken in the RPP. There's about a $2 million difference there as well that would have been moved over to internal services.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

On to the strategic outcome, number three slide, $11.2 million. Again 2008-09, Veterans Review and Appeal Board was $13.6 million, and your deck is showing $11.2 million. That's a difference of $2.4 million.

[Ron Herbert]

I really can't speak to the Veterans Review and Appeal Board. The chairman of the board would have to speak to those numbers. I can speak for the department numbers but not for the board or for the ombudsman.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Fair enough.

On to the overview of the five operational stress injury clinics that were announced in the 2007 budget. You are moving forward with five more that are anticipated to be opening soon. Are we still on target for that? Where are we on that spending?

[Keith Hillier]

Yes, the money was set aside, and there have been various announcements. Some of the clinics have been opened and some will be opened very soon. I know that the minister has announced various dates, and we are on schedule to meet those commitments.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Hillier and Mr. Andrews.

Monsieur Gaudet, pour cinq minutes, s'il vous plaît.