I think Mr. Stoffer is probably an expert on that. He has pointed out some fallacies that we are painfully aware of. Again, we see a program that was designed with the best of intentions to provide pre-1981 widows with access to VIP benefits. That's number one. We probably exaggerated the financial demand for this program. We can see that by the uptake.
Number two, Veterans Affairs Canada ensured that the criteria for accessing VIP for pre-1981 widows are relatively stringent. Having said that, I will note that these pre-1981 widows whose husbands did not have VIP benefits can actually access the housekeeping and groundskeeping programs. As for the post-1981 widows whose husbands may have thought they would only take groundskeeping because their spouses could look after housekeeping and could continue to do that--they didn't ask for the housekeeping because they thought their spouses were doing a good job--those widows cannot access the housekeeping.
It doesn't make sense. We basically have two classes of widows. By the way, I'm not covering the fact that frail veterans who also are on their own still don't have access to VIP. Their only gateway to VIP is to prove that they have a disability.
The minister has actually said that in a number of councils, either in Parliament or in the Senate, and he has recognized himself it doesn't make sense that to get VIP a person should apply for a disability for hearing loss. It simply doesn't make sense.