Nor I yours, sir.
Evidence of meeting #31 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cpp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Evidence of meeting #31 for Veterans Affairs in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was cpp.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
But I have some concerns about the voting record, and you talked about the budget and so on. In 2002, Mr. Stoffer voted against $92 million for pensions for disability and death, including pensions granted under the authority of the Civilian Government Employees (War) Compensation Order.
The second one is of course the VIP program that we just talked about--$29 million. You also talked about the Prime Minister's letter on the VIP. It is my understanding that the VIP is for veterans who are disabled and can no longer do the kinds of things they may need to do around their homes.
You talked about the widows. Would the same criteria not apply, or would you just give it to all the widows, whether they have disabilities or not? It seems to me you're trying to sort of spread this thing, which in my view is not correct.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Sir, with great respect, I'm not the one, you're not the one, the Liberals and Bloc are not the ones who wrote and signed a letter to Joyce Carter that said, “If we form government, all widows would immediately receive the VIP program--”
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
LaVar Payne Conservative Medicine Hat, AB
But the VIP program, Mr. Stoffer, is for disabilities, is it not?
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
It's also for infirm, for elderly, for people who no longer can do the basic--
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative David Sweet
Now to the Liberal Party.
I understand that Madam Sgro and Mr. Oliphant are going to share the time.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
We'll try.
Again, Mr. Stoffer, I know two things about you: you like chocolate milk--
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Rob Oliphant Liberal Don Valley West, ON
--I've been noticing that--and you are committed to veterans. Thank you.
I'm sorting out a couple of things in this. I don't want to bring in OAS, because that is a social security system. It is part of a social safety net, and it's an age benefit. So I want to leave it out.
This has nothing to do with charity. The issue you're raising has to do with justice. Those are very different things. I think on this side we recognize that, and now we're just trying to sort out how we best do that.
The question I have is a technical question. Are there members of the forces, either side, whose salary and rank have qualified them for a pension such that they're not eligible or do not need a bridging to old age security--i.e., they're at such a level that it would have reduced the bridging amount to zero--in any way?
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
The reality is that if you look at, for example, Mr. Hillier's pension, if he received one, he wouldn't receive old age security at any time. His pension is of a stature that he doesn't get old age security.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
For the sake of argument, let's say he had a $100,000 pension. If he turned age 60 and wished to collect CPP early, he would receive...if he was no longer working, of course.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
In that case he'd receive his CPP early, like everybody else. But at age 65, like the person who makes $18,000 a year in pension, whatever he would have received at age 65 would be deducted from his superannuation, his armed forces pension in this regard. But if, for whatever reason, at age 60 he took whatever amount it was, he would receive that amount. But he, like everyone else, would get benefit reduction.
9:55 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
Every federal or provincial public servant in the country.
9:55 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
All of us, if we're here a fair amount of years, as you have been already, will have a pension of a certain amount of money. You're going to receive the OAS just like everybody else, at least on the first year. And that second year, well, once you get over $61,000 up to $102,000, that starts to be reduced in a benefit reduction. I'm not going to call it clawback, but it's a benefit reduction.
We may love all our men and women who've served in the military, but why would it be different for them than for everyone else when that was an agreement? I don't agree with the agreement the way it was done, but that was an agreement back in 1966. We have to move forward, not go back.
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
First of all, it wasn't an agreement that the men and women of the service and the RCMP had anything to do with.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
Their representatives, via the union, were the ones who lobbied for it.
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
No, the RCMP and military don't have unions, as you know, Madam Sgro, or associations.
10 a.m.
NDP
Peter Stoffer NDP Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS
This was done for them by senior officials within various departments who said how it was going to be and that was it. There was no discussion.
The public service unions were completely different. They had representatives at the table who argued--for whatever reason at that time--for the particular benefits as they were drawn out and the deductions at that time. Military and RCMP had no say in this, and they still have no say in this. They don't have associations or representatives in terms of unions that could argue at a bargaining table if this was right or wrong.
10 a.m.
Liberal
Judy Sgro Liberal York West, ON
If this was to somehow pass and you had to go back, as you're suggesting--