Veterans Affairs Committee on Nov. 24th, 2009

[Lorne McCartney]

Thank you.

The ANAVETS units, the Legion, and others are in these areas that are away from the military bases, for example. Our honorary president, Gerry Wharton, in fact put a challenge to ANAVETS units to go to local armouries and find out who's been tasked to go overseas and give support to the family while they're away and even when they come back. Perhaps there are some opportunities there, because we're not in the military location, but depending on where our units or branches are, we may end up being in a position to help out a little bit further.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Is there any help we can give you on that, or requests? I know you value your independence from government and being at arm's length and all that, but I've been to ANAVETS clubs and Legions lately, and there's an aging population. It's a big issue. I'm just wondering....

[Lorne McCartney]

At the moment I can't think of anything.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Think about it and get back to us. We want to help.

[Lorne McCartney]

I'll send you an e-mail. Send me your e-mail address.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

I'll be in touch with the OTs.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Your time has expired, but I know there's a question for the occupational therapist.

[Dr. Claudia von Zweck]

Elizabeth already responded to say that occupational therapists, even with entry-level education, have good knowledge of how to approach issues related to mental health. I respect that people coming back from war are dealing with pretty specific issues, but I think there are opportunities through our national association. If there is a need we can certainly create training programs for occupational therapists and networks. For example, through our association we have a network of occupational therapists who specialize in the whole area of mental health. We can use those resources to inform our members and better serve the veterans.

[Dr. Elizabeth Taylor]

I was listening to an address by Martha Piper, who was talking about the change in communication styles. I think one of the things that occupational therapists are doing very differently is distance treatment through telehealth--using a lot of different forms of communication to move between resources and teach resources to people who access it.

I think the younger veterans you're beginning to see are also using those communication resources, and it's really important that we incorporate them into how we view the world, utilize the services, and provide services. The students I work with are tweeting on Twitter and doing all sorts of wonderful things, but more importantly they're learning to treat through those resources. There's a lot of distance treatment in this world when you're in a smaller profession.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

My mother's 86, and she's on Facebook.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much. That concludes our questioning and our time.

We need to go in camera for some business, but first I'd like to say thank you very much to the witnesses for their time and answers. We appreciate it.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Stoffer, thanks for joining us.

We have a motion from Monsieur André.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

You have received the motion in both official languages. It reads as follows:

That, pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), the Standing Committee on Veterans' Affairs study the problem of suicide among former members of the Canadian Forces and report its observations and recommendations to the House.

I would like the committee to study suicide specifically. Last week, and again today, we have seen the matter come up often. The matter is dealt with only briefly in the study on the Veterans Charter. It is a matter that we should look more deeply into with this study.

There are a number of cases, like Frédéric Couture in Quebec. He was the former soldier that I told the committee about. He took his own life. This was a disastrous situation; none of his family was aware of what happened when he was on his combat mission. I would like to study and understand the phenomenon, especially what can be done to prevent it.

We have to examine the resources that the department presently provides in order to present suicide. We have to study it in great depth to find out what happens in those cases.

We should also study the question of awareness, the information that our veterans get about the effects of stress on others, on families and on themselves. We should study the matter in depth and call the witnesses that I have already identified. Universities have experts in post-traumatic stress syndrome and suicide. I saw a report about the subject by a veteran who did a PhD in psychology at the Université Laval, in Quebec City, and who had lived through it himself. We could meet a number of witnesses, including parents who have lived through their children coming back and then killing themselves.

You can see that this is not a partisan perspective. Every member here could look deeply into the problem of suicide that we are hearing more and more about, including the follow-up done with people coming back from combat missions and the services. We must do an in-depth study of the matter.

[Gérard Asselin, Bloc, Manicouagan, QC]

It is a good motion.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. André.

Are there any comments?

Madam Sgro.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

Mr. Chair, you mentioned going in camera.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

No, we are public.

[Judy Sgro, Liberal, York West, ON]

We are public. Okay, that's fine.

As a comment, I am very supportive of Mr. André's motion. I know we were talking about the other charter anyway, but given the things we are hearing, a specific study with some specific recommendations would help to build the strength of how important we see these issues to be.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Kerr.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'm glad it's not, as his colleague was talking about, an investigation, but rather you're back to the fact it is part of the review.

I would strongly urge that it be done, even if it's a widened appendage, as part of the charter review. We heard again from witnesses this morning who are very interested in this matter. They are part of the review process of the charter and they have a number of recommendations. I think we'd be very happy they did it. I'd really like to see it done as part of our charter review, even if it has a separate section in it, not as a separate one that we start months down the road, independent, because then we'd have to get DND involved and start all over again. We have a process in place now. We can expand it as much as we want.

I also want to point out, Mr. Chair, that the minister has already ordered a review within his department looking at the suicide rates and all that is behind it. That will be ongoing as part of the process. That started before this came forward, I should point out, so there will be work under way. Maybe we could even bring the department, if they want, as part of the process as well, but I'd strongly urge that we encapsulate it in part of the charter review, because we're hearing from all kinds of witnesses out there who take this charter review as the number one responsibility, and include this as one of the serious issues. I'd rather see it as part of that, within the charter review, and not set up as separate and independent.

I made that comment to Mr. André earlier, and I still feel strongly from this side that it would work better that way.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Is there any other debate?

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I would tend to agree with Mr. Kerr on that. Mark that down, Greg, that's number two today.

But the thing is, the charter would benefit some programs for those who are still with us. As for suicide, we're dealing with people who are either attempting suicide, have attempted it, or have already accomplished it. Then we're dealing with their families and their concerns afterwards.

There was a story we all read about a lady, the mother or the spouse of a person who wasn't advised that he had attempted suicide. I looked at that and thought maybe there was a privacy or legal issue that I wasn't getting.

As you said earlier, Greg, many of these people are so private about their lives that any unauthorized interference could cause them to do things that are unforeseen. So whatever we do in these cases, we should agree in advance that in certain circumstances we may have to be in camera, because of the sensitivity of the notion.

I agree, Mr. André. I think this would go quite well.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Monsieur André, would you accept this as a friendly amendment, that it would be significantly identified but part of the review of the new Veterans Charter?

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

With the motion, I want to insist that attention is paid to the issue specifically, so that it does not get buried under various recommendations in the charter. It needs to be a specific issue.

Are we making it a specific addition to the charter? Is the committee making time to study the issue of suicide among veterans? This is an important and pressing problem. I do not want it to be buried. We are talking about it today, witnesses have testified about the problem again, but I do not want it to be buried and be mixed in with the review of the charter. I want it to be a separate study.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

I don't want to enter into debate, but I want to put forward a point of information. In the 39th Parliament we did a comprehensive study, and we had the same concern about PTSD. We made it a substantial part of our work and promoted it separately in our study.

Mr. Stoffer.