Veterans Affairs Committee on Feb. 23rd, 2009

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

That means that if someone in your country joins the army at the age 20, spends 25 years in the army and leaves at age 45, unless he leaves because of an injury, he will not immediately collect a veteran's pension. He only will get a pension at age 65.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

The pension is not the same thing as the retirement allowance.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

In other words, a retirement allowance...

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

You get a pension because you sustained an injury related to a theatre of operations.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

The person joins the army at age 20. If after 25 years of service, the person leaves the army, not because of an injury, he or she will not get anything before the age of 65.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

We are talking about a retirement allowance.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

Yes. He or she will get a retirement allowance at age 65.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

That's not the retirement allowance for a veteran, I am talking about the retirement allowance from the public service.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

All right. So an individual between the ages of 45 and 65, who leaves the army after 25 years of service, but who is uninjured and in good health, will receive nothing from the state.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

No.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

This individual will receive nothing.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

This person will pursue a second career. The pension is reserved for the injured.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

All right.

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

However, as I alluded to earlier, an individual may have served for 90 days. This individual may be entitled to a veteran's pension once he or she reaches the age of 65, which would be in addition to the public service pension or the pension that any individual would have accumulated throughout his or her career.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

This is a major difference from the way things work in Canada. Here the person receives the pension immediately once he or she leaves the army, at age 42, 44 or 45. In France, this happens at 65.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Merci, monsieur Plamondon.

Mr. Stoffer, five minutes, please.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Sir, thank you very much for coming to our committee today.

I want to ask you this. In France, what is the definition of a veteran? For example, if I signed up with the French army tomorrow and I did my training and in my third month I was hit by something and became permanently injured, would I be considered a veteran even though I hadn't served 90 days in theatre, as you had indicated before? Or if I served 25 years but never left the country of France--say I had more national service within the military but remained in France and never crossed the border--would I be considered a veteran then?

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

A soldier is a veteran if he's entitled to a pension because he's been injured. So he would necessarily be a veteran.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

I'm not worried about pension benefits. It's the definition of veteran.

You said you have 3.6 million veterans in France, and 361,000 are receiving a pension. What is the definition of veteran in France? You said earlier that if you served 90 days in theatre somewhere else, then you'd be a veteran. For example, you served in the first Gulf War--I believe it was the first one. You served 90 days, so you will be considered a veteran when you leave the service. But if you hadn't served overseas, if you'd stayed within France, or if you had become injured in your training as a new recruit, for example, would you be considered a veteran then?

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

Yes. The title of veteran broadly covers military personnel who have simply served more than 90 days beyond our borders, without necessarily having served in a combat unit, either during a time of war or crisis. As soon as these individuals have served the state for more than 90 days, they obtain what we refer to as a titre de reconnaissance de la nation, or a certificate of gratitude from the nation. These people include pensioners, veterans, those who are entitled to this titre de la reconnaissance de la nation. All of these people together constitute our veterans.

For example, a young man who has accumulated 25 years of service and who has spent 90 days participating in an operation outside the country, without necessarily being in a combat unit, will be given the titre de reconnaissance de la nation and will be entitled to veterans' benefits.

However, if this same person remained in France and never participated in an operation outside the country, he would not be considered a veteran. That means that somebody working in a support role—I no longer know whether support is still far removed from the combat units; everything is so closely interlinked these days—he would have had to have spent 90 days participating in an operation outside the country in order to become a veteran.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Merci, monsieur.

I noticed in your presentation that you never brought up the words “family” or “spouse” or “children”. If you were to serve your country and pay the ultimate sacrifice for your country, what benefit would fall upon, say, your wife and your children?

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

Some provisions are available. These are what we call successor pensions. The pension is to go to the spouse, children or dependents, as soon as the individual receiving this pension dies. There are some reconversion principles that I could describe for you, should you so wish. Do you want me to go into the...

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Is it a lump sum payment that the family would get, or is it a monthly pension for the rest of the spouse's life?

[Col Jean-Michel Verney]

It would be for the rest of the surviving spouse's life. There are, however, various scenarios. Depending on the pensioner's situation, the reconversion could be in full or on a sliding scale. The spouse will not necessarily receive 100% of the pension amount.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

The time is up, Mr. Stoffer.