Veterans Affairs Committee on March 9th, 2009

[Lindee Lenox]

Does that make sense?

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Yes, it does.

I'd like to explore this 41% that you do service. That means that 59% of eligible people do not take advantage of even a headstone. That's a pretty high number. How would you try to explain that?

[Lindee Lenox]

I can only speculate, and I will again use myself as an example.

I came to the Department of Veterans Affairs in 2001. I am a veteran; almost everybody in my family is a veteran. We all served our time, we got out, and we went on with our lives and never really thought much more about it. I did not know until I came to the Department of Veterans Affairs that I was eligible for these benefits.

So of that 59% of people whom you're talking about, I suspect that probably the majority of them simply are not aware. They served their time, they got out, and they went about their lives. When they reached an old age and were ready to pass on, they were making their decisions on that, and it just never occurred to them that they might be eligible for a burial benefit. That goes back, I believe, to our having the responsibility of doing a better job of getting the information out about what people are eligible for.

[Scott Andrews, Liberal, Avalon, NL]

Would you say that any of it actually relates to the actual cost of the funeral? If they're buried in a cemetery, you're going to pay for the headstone and everything from the gate in. However, from the gate out is an essential cost to anyone burying anybody. How many veterans cannot even afford the whole burial process from the gate out? Is that of concern as well?

[Lindee Lenox]

There are certain veterans who are eligible for some reimbursement, as I said, and I don't know what that is. That's not the side of the house that I operate in. There are some veterans, and I believe it's veterans who are eligible for other benefits, who may be eligible for a reimbursement of some of the burial expenses. So there's that.

There are certainly others who probably have no money for the funeral. What options are available to them? Cremation, perhaps. We take care of indigent veterans. We actually have agreements with some of the local municipalities, cities, and what not, where, if they learn that an indigent was a veteran, they will come to us. They have some pool of money somewhere to take care of that and they deliver the veteran to us. We treat those veterans exactly the same as any other veteran. Once they come in, they get the full honours, they get the full everything.

So there are a number of safety nets, I guess, for veterans who don't have funding.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

Now on to Mr. McColeman for five minutes.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I'm interested and curious, more than anything, about a differentiation and I need you to clarify it for me. I think the national cemeteries like Arlington--and for the sake of better words, and I don't know if I'm using the right words here--are prestigious, elevated places for burial. They are no doubt finite in terms of the amount of space left to inter veterans there. Are you working towards a program to elevate the status of other facilities in that regard to that level of, say, an Arlington or a Gettysburg, or places like those? I'm sure a lot of veterans would be very honoured to think they would be able to be interred there.

[Lindee Lenox]

Well, as far as we're concerned, our cemeteries are just as prestigious as Arlington and any of the rest of them. We are constantly looking for ways to make sure we have space available forever.

Just as a side comment, Arlington is expanding. They are taking some additional land that's being donated, so they hope to stay open for a while longer. And we do service Arlington; we provide their headstones and markers.

We consider all of our cemeteries, every single one of them, to be national shrines. We maintain them to those standards, and we feel they are equal to Arlington.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I studied in the United States for my graduate work and I realized there are so many families in the United States who have lost a direct family member to one of the great wars, going right back, of course, to the Civil War. The sense of pride that Americans have is something I want to learn more about in terms of how we can translate some of that sense of pride to the sacrifices that the people in uniform make.

I'm wondering if there are any other advances you see on the horizon to be able to do that through the work you do. Do you have a wish list of things that you would change to improve?

[Lindee Lenox]

We're always looking for new things to do. In recent years we've participated in a program called wreaths across America, which you may or may not have heard about. During the holiday season wreaths will be put on graves in all of our cemeteries. It actually started at Arlington National Cemetery, and every single grave had a beautiful wreath put on it. Now it's across all of our cemeteries. That's one thing.

As far as a wish list is concerned, no, I can't think of anything. But I can say that we go out and speak on Veterans Day, we speak on Memorial Day. High-level people here in Washington--officials, governors, and so on--will go out to cemeteries across the country and they will speak. The ceremonies and events we have are phenomenal. There's always a great crowd, and it's a wonderful opportunity to instill that patriotism and get everybody remembering the veterans and the sacrifices. We do all those things and we're always looking for new ways, but in terms of a wish list of things, no, I can't think of anything like that.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

I have one last question. There are always groups of individuals in society who become disenfranchised or are on the fringe, if I can put it that way. Are there any outreach programs to special communities to let them know about your services, let them know they exist? Because they participate in a less active way than the mainstream population of your vets.

[Lindee Lenox]

I think that's the group we're trying to get to, the folks who are not involved in any way in their veteran status. They don't belong to a veterans service organization. They don't go out to those Memorial Day events. We are trying to expand our outreach to groups like that, to go to places like nursing homes, where you wouldn't typically think of going. But those are the folks we want to get to, the folks who are veterans, many of whom just don't think of themselves, for whatever reason, as veterans. They don't identify in that way. So there are a lot of opportunities, and we are always seeking those opportunities.

The Veterans Benefits Administration, VA overall, has a number of programs to get out into the communities to try to get to veterans who are in need of our services. Ours, because we deal with burial benefits, is a little different, but certainly we're always looking for those opportunities.

[Phil McColeman, Conservative, Brant, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. McColeman.

The Bloc Québécois has advised me they have exhausted their questions, so in rotation that would come back to Mr. Kerr, if you have more questions, sir, for five minutes.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I have just a couple.

You may have said this in your opening when the history came up, and I may have missed it, but when did the cemetery service start and when was the first recognized cemetery in the United States?

[Lindee Lenox]

I'm going to say the first cemetery was either in 1862 or 1863--it was the Civil War. President Lincoln started the cemetery system, and those cemeteries are all still around.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I'm not surprised that would be the case with the Civil War.

My colleague Phil was on to a point about outreach and so on. I know some of the challenges we have. Do you find a difference over time between some of the veterans who may want to resist service or recognition or contact; in other words, those who perhaps want to avoid recognition that they were part of the process of having been in war? Does one time period seem different from another, or is it pretty much the same challenge throughout?

[Lindee Lenox]

I think the older veterans, the World War II veterans in particular, are very, very proud of their service and very patriotic, but not ones to talk about it at all. We do see that. They're not going to step forward and ask for anything--for benefits, for services. It's just not part of their culture or their generation.

A lot more Vietnam veterans are much more apt to take advantage of benefits that may be available to them, and they are more vocal about what they believe they are entitled to and what their rights are.

As you move on up through the more recent and the current conflicts, these folks are very patriotic in the same way as World War II vets, but they're not afraid to ask for their benefits. It's a mixing of the two.

We, as an agency, are doing a much better job of reaching out to them and getting them early on and trying to deal with their issues while they're still transitioning out of the military so they understand their benefits. So they have much more knowledge and are there taking advantage of the services and benefits.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

I think we've run through some of the similar challenges and recognition. Some groups are a little harder to approach than others, for similar reasons, for sure.

I'm going to turn to my colleague, who has a question.

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Are American veterans who now live in Canada entitled to the same benefits while living in Canada as other Americans?

[Lindee Lenox]

You mean the burial benefits?

[Rob Clarke, Conservative, Desnethé—Missinippi—Churchill River, SK]

Yes.

[Lindee Lenox]

Yes, absolutely. As long as they're an eligible veteran and fit the criteria, we'll ship a headstone to Canada and it can be placed at a cemetery up there, or they can come back to the States and be buried in a national cemetery.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

There's one more slot for the Conservative Party. Does anybody else have any questions? All right, then, I'll move on to the New Democratic Party.

Mr. Stoffer.

[Peter Stoffer, NDP, Sackville—Eastern Shore, NS]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

I have a question for you on your national ceremonial sites. Do you have security around the pocket of those sites?