Veterans Affairs Committee on April 29th, 2010

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

I did call to confirm.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Mr. Chair, we raise the question because the other witnesses sent documents that were not translated within the time specified. We checked. There is a logistics problem. We are seeing it again today.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Our regular clerk is not here. I cannot establish the question about what the issue is.

Yes, I understand.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

I did bring copies of that. I've also submitted an article from ON TRACK magazine, which is in English and French, so you will have that. My résumé is in English and French, so that's prepared for you.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Just make sure the clerk gets anything you have that's in both official languages. He'll have to inspect it before it's distributed to the committee members.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

Okay.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You can go ahead now, Ms. MacKinnon.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

I'll go ahead with my notes. I'm going to read this.

Mr. Chair, members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, thank you for allowing me this opportunity to speak today on behalf of our veterans.

I would like to start by telling you a little about myself. I am a former medical officer who has served in both the regular and reserve forces. I have participated in numerous military operations, both at home and overseas. I have a unique general practice in Halifax, composed of former military and RCMP members and their spouses. I formed this practice, as I have discovered there is a definite need for a medical transitional service for both regular and reserve forces personnel who have left or who are leaving the Canadian Forces.

I am also an active member of the Royal United Services Institute of Nova Scotia, or RUSI, which I am representing here today. For those of you who may not be familiar with RUSI, I would like to take a moment to explain to you who we are and what our organization does. The Royal United Services Institute of Nova Scotia serves as a discussion and education forum on Canadian defence and security issues. Our membership includes serving and retired officers and members of the Canadian Forces, the RCMP, other security agencies, business, industry, community leaders, and other interested individuals who carry out a number of activities that support the implementation of effective foreign defence and security policies. In addition, we encourage the development and maintenance of Canada's military and security forces, and we feel strongly about the requirement for a comprehensive benefits package that many of our veterans require in order to sustain a reasonable standard of living.

In order to gain better understanding of the benefits available under the new Veterans Charter, RUSI Nova Scotia established a committee, of which I am a member, to determine if deficiencies exist, and, if so, to offer our assistance to help resolve shortfalls within the charter in a fair and equitable manner. To date, the committee has met with senior members of the Legion, Veterans Affairs Canada, the veterans affairs committee ombudsman, Nova Scotia Capital Health, provincial and federal politicians, veterans, and serving members of the military.

We have concluded that there are many positive aspects to the programs available through the new Veterans Charter. However, the current VAC plan to downsize and eventually close existing long-term medical care facilities as the World War II and Korean War veterans decline in numbers raises grave concern, not only for the veterans and their families, but we believe for all citizens of this magnificent country.

Modern--that is, post-Korean War--veterans do not have access to the specialized long-term health care facilities currently run by Veterans Affairs Canada. These facilities are all specialized, ranging from Camp Hill veterans hospital in Halifax, Ste. Anne's Hospital in Sainte-Anne-de-Bellevue, Quebec, Sunnybrook Hospital in Toronto, to the smaller nursing homes around the country that have a few beds under contract to VAC. Modern veterans in need of long-term health care must compete with the general public for beds in nursing homes or hospitals. Waiting lists are long for placement in these facilities. The facility may be located a great distance from the veteran's home and family. The facility is most likely not equipped to offer the expertise to deal with veterans' special needs, such as post-traumatic stress disorder treatment, severe head and body trauma, and amputee rehabilitation.

I have permission from the family to discuss one such veteran with you. This gentleman is Major (Retired) Philip Paterson. Major Paterson is also a patient I have been looking after for several years. I knew him when I was serving with the Canadian Forces. Our committee visited him at home this past November. He was diagnosed several years ago with PTSD, post-traumatic stress disorder, and more recently dementia. Although he's still living at home at this time, his deteriorating condition is such that it is placing an unacceptable level of stress and financial hardship on his family.

Major Paterson attended the Royal Military College at the same time as our committee chairman. Despite his dementia, it was clear during the conversation that he recalled, with fond memories, many of the same people and events that transpired some 40-plus years ago, but was totally at a loss to remember things his wife had said only a few minutes earlier. His condition had deteriorated to the point where he urgently needed to be placed in a permanent facility.

Despite numerous attempts to have him admitted to Camp Hill veterans hospital in Halifax, however, he was officially denied access by Veterans Affairs. He was admitted to a long-term care facility in Bridgetown, Nova Scotia, a three-hour drive from his family. The need for specialized programs and to be with other veterans provides one of the few remaining opportunities to foster any form of quality of life for our veterans.

Please don't take these comments as blasting Veterans Affairs Canada. There is much to like about the new charter. There is a much stronger focus on reintegrating the injured veteran into the workforce and society in general. There are existing training opportunities, some hiring priority in the federal civil service, and psychological services such as the operational stress injury centres located in several provinces.

Veterans Affairs does not supply medical treatment to veterans. This is done through the provincial health care systems. DND and VAC have collaborated to set up the joint personnel support unit at various bases to help Canadian Forces members who are being medically released to transition to civilian life. These centres do not supply medical transitional services for these patients. This type of service has yet to be established. As you know, that is what I do as a private general practitioner. I would like to see medical transitional services that are designed to deal with the regular and reserve forces set up across the country.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, our modern-day veterans have served this nation under the most dangerous and miserable conditions imaginable. Their dedication and sacrifice have helped form one of the cornerstones of Canadian foreign policy and have earned Canada the utmost respect and envy around the world. The ability to provide the specialized medical care that so many of our veterans currently need, or will require, is not a gift, but a debt they are owed by this country. The measure of an institution such as Veterans Affairs cannot be determined by fiscal management alone, but rather by compassion and quality of the service they provide.

I am absolutely convinced that any short-term budgetary gains realized through a reduction to essential veterans services will be minor when compared to the long-term cost to our veterans, their families, and society at large.

Mr. Chair and members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, please help to ensure our veterans receive the treatment and respect they have earned. Do not allow the erosion of specialized treatment or the elimination of the long-term care facilities they so desperately require.

I would like to express my sincere thanks to you for having taken the time to listen to me today. If you have any questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Madam MacKinnon.

We'll go on to questions after Mr. Maguire gives his opening remarks.

[William Maguire, As an Individual]

First of all, before I start off, I'm going to tell you I'm not an educated man in regard to what you people have gone through. I am a soldier. I have been a soldier since the age of 15. And I will talk like a soldier. I'm not here to make friends. I'm not here to get a job, a high-paying job, or any other thing. What I'm trying to do is bring to light what's going on with the new charter, having worked with many veterans under the OSISS program, if you please.

Mr. Chair and fellow members of the Standing Committee on Veterans Affairs, it is a great honour to sit with such noble individuals. Thank you for your time to let me speak to you today on issues that are very concerning to my fellow veterans, and I speak for the fellow veterans. Having served in all three branches of the military over a span of 37 years, there's not much as an individual that I have not covered. This includes tours with NATO and the United Nations organizations. My schooling was completed carried out on a battlefield. My instructors were hardened men who had served in the Second World War and Korean conflicts. So one might say that you grew up very fast or you were forced to the wayside.

My first encounter with death through battle was at the age of 18 in Cyprus, 1967-68, and my last throw of the hat in the battlefield was under the conditions in Somalia in 1992-93.

If given the chance, I would like to bring issues to the table in regard to the new charter and how it has failed the veteran. Other issues that should be covered are how Veterans Affairs treats its veterans, patronizing by persons of authority who have no experience with military or no understanding of the afflictions suffered daily by veterans. These same persons always seem to come to light when serious conditions arise regarding the veterans and their health. The final decision has to be made by them whether or not the veteran is entitled to his/her claim.

It must be remembered that the majority of these patrons have no medical or psychological background whatsoever. It has gotten to the point where the system is overriding the recommendations of medical professionals. This is not only a sham but a disgraceful and demeaning act to the medical system. Some very highly qualified medical professionals have actually been picked out and harassed by Veterans Affairs and deemed not competent to give medical advice to Veterans Affairs in regard to veterans' claims.

Where does a veteran stand? He or she is left to their own demise. More and more I see that Veterans Affairs is being run like a business and not as an agency to help our veterans who have served for years without the right to appeal or complain. Now that the veterans need help, they seem to be dropped to the wayside, and it is getting worse.

William (Bill) Maguire, P.O. Box 5, Eastern Passage, Nova Scotia.

I've brought 20 copies of this, plus 20 copies of my time served in the forces. And I apologize, sir, it's not in French.

I am open to questions.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you, Mr. Maguire.

No worry, you can leave a copy of that with us. We'll have it translated and redistributed to the committee members.

[William Maguire]

The member has already come forward. I'm taking the copy from you, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

We'll move on to questions now. We have time for one round, so please share your time accordingly among the parties.

It's on to Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Could I ask for a three-minute warning? I'm going to share my time with Mrs. Crombie.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Will do.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

She'll talk to Mr. Maguire and I'll talk to Dr. MacKinnon.

Thank you, Dr. MacKinnon.

You've clarified something in my head and I wanted to just double-check it with you. I've been working on this issue for a number of months now.

I'm going to ask if the chair could ask my colleagues to please pay attention. I had difficulty hearing Dr. MacKinnon because my colleagues were speaking. I didn't raise a point of order, but I felt it was very rude that they were talking through her testimony. It's not as rude that they're talking through my question, but I'm finding it difficult.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Oliphant, I have stopped the time.

Maybe I'll just add to that. I have spoken to committee members a number of times. We always have a lot of business to do, and sometimes we have to lean back and talk to staff, etc. Please be mindful when doing that.

I know you've flown all the way here today. You barely got here in time, and now you're going to be flying back. So we owe a debt of gratitude to you, not only for coming, but also for your service to Canada.

Go ahead, Mr. Oliphant.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

Many of the arguments are based on a medical model of transition from DND and active service to Veterans Affairs, ongoing commitment to our veterans, and then long-term care, which is almost a third phase. I'm sort of seeing it now in three phases. There's the transition, which includes some new Veterans Charter and rehabilitative stuff; support for everything from catastrophic injuries to lesser injuries, but maybe complex injuries; and then long-term care may be affected. Our previous witness said that long-term care needs may be different for veterans because of their service. Whether they are amputees or have other injuries, different care may be involved later in life.

What I heard you say--and it was clearer than it has ever been before--is that most of the arguments have been based on the service they gave, and that we owe them. You did say there's a debt, not just a gift. But you also said that specialized care is necessary.

So there are two things: the debt we owe for the service that men and women have given to our country is a covenant, not just a contract, and they have specialized needs that are different from the regular population. In the balance of those two in this new model, tell me a little about the specialized care you see as necessary.

[Dr. Heather MacKinnon]

We can break that down into two parts. When people are released from the forces for medical reasons--or even other--they're usually put out without any medical follow-up. The door is closed and they're out. So it doesn't matter what has happened; once your release date is over, you're out. There is no transition set up for these people, so they go to whoever will take them. I just happen to be one doctor in particular. Because I'm a veteran, I take veterans in my practice, and it has become renowned.

I have been speaking about medical transitional services. We need to train more doctors to deal with these people with their special injuries. They might have post-traumatic stress disorder or they may be amputees. A lot of them have chronic pain from injuries. You have to understand that you don't even need to have been in a war to be broken in the military, because there are years of training. It's like being in a triathlon for your whole career. You're in it all the time for 20 years, because you're always training and hurting yourself.

Bill is a good example. He's a patient of mine, but he's also very broken from his varied career. He was in the army in Cyprus; he was with the airborne. He's had a lot of things bat him around. We even crossed paths in Somalia because we were on the same ship together. Bill is a good statement for all the things that can happen. But what I'm trying to say is there is no service set up for this for people leaving the forces.

One of the articles I did bring, which is in two languages, is an article I submitted to ON TRACK magazine. We'll pass it around later. It goes into more detail on this.

You can be a reserve force member who was a class C or class B when you were over in Afghanistan. Then you come back and go back to just being a class A, meeting on Tuesday nights. You may have some sort of injury. You're back in the provincial health care system and there's no follow-up. There's nobody checking up on these kids. Nobody knows what they're doing. I'm starting to pick up a few of these, but I'm not really getting a lot of them because they're lost.

[Rob Oliphant, Liberal, Don Valley West, ON]

Thank you.

Your testimony, both of you, was not only on what can happen, but that the service never ends. Thanks.

[William Maguire]

That's a good way of putting it, sir.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Madam Crombie, I have to stop the time.

Because we've had some administrative issues, Madam MacKinnon, if you have any documents with you, please don't hand them out. Give them to the clerk and we'll make sure they're dealt with appropriately. Thank you very much.

You have two and a half minutes, Madam Crombie.

[Bonnie Crombie, Liberal, Mississauga—Streetsville, ON]

Oh, I get two and a half minutes. I'm so delighted. Thank you.

Mr. Maguire, I want to question you, if I could. First let me thank you for being here today and for the service you have given to our great country.

You talked a little bit about how the new Veterans Charter has failed--has failed you and has failed veterans. I wonder if you could give us a few specifics about where exactly it has failed.

I'm going to put all my questions out in case you talk out the clock, so that you can refer to all of them. That was the first one.

Second, I was shocked and mortified to hear that you've been patronized, or you feel that veterans have been patronized in the way you've described. I wonder if you have any concrete examples. Is there anything we can do, as a committee, to address this grievance? It just mortifies me that this would happen to our veterans.

Finally, you mentioned that Veterans Affairs Canada has been performing as a business, without considering policy that would act in the interests of our veterans. Are there any specific issues you can address as well that we can assist with?

[William Maguire]

You asked how the new Veterans Charter has failed. One of the big things that upsets a lot of us modern veterans is that anyone who applied for a claim after April 1, 2006, was deemed to be under the new Veterans Charter. The new Veterans Charter eliminated all pensions. You were given a lump sum for your injuries and basically told to go on your way and leave them alone. You had your $50,000 or $70,000, or whatever it is, so now leave them alone.

They have said that they are trying to keep the quality of life of the veteran at a high level, percentage-wise. In other words, keep us at home as long as possible and keep us out of the system. This is done through rehabilitation programs, spousal allowances, and things like this.

Again, the new Veterans Charter has failed. I am over 100% disabled. My wife has had to quit work to look after me. Yet there is no compensation out there for her. When I asked why, I was told that she is my wife and she is expected to look after me. I thought that was very demeaning. Between us, we've lost over $3,000 a month. I've gained $300 through the Canada Pension Plan.

Every time we ask for funds--not just me, but other veterans I have worked for--we are given the same story. We're not entitled. We don't meet the requirements. And it goes on and on, especially if you come under the new Veterans Charter. It seems that they want nothing to do with us.

Now, the men who were under the old charter, prior to April 1, 2006, are pensioned, and their indexed cost of living index goes up 6% every year. Six percent is a lot of money when you're making $2,000 or $3,000 a month under pension plans. We're not given anything. We're getting nothing.

Then they say that if you're 100% disabled, you have no need to ask for anything, because they are here for us. Well, that is “bullarkey”. I need pills now, and I have to get Heather to sign for the prescription, and I'm told that I'm not covered. I'm a diabetic and I need stockings. I'm not covered. It goes on and on.

Your second question was...?