Veterans Affairs Committee on May 13th, 2010

[Brenda MacCormack]

The other resource that's readily available to families for counselling is the VAC assistance line that provides 24-hour service, where they can be set up with a counsellor, and then, depending on the circumstances, transition to community resources. If they are within the VAC treatment program and if they're a veteran, there are certainly lots of opportunities for us to provide and pay for that direct care, provided the resource is available. As Janice pointed out, that's a challenge across the country, and we're looking at various means.

[Jane Hicks]

Certainly the registered providers we have can bill us directly. Often we have clients who are going to providers who are not registered; then we have to reimburse the clients. So we encourage clients to go to registered providers. It makes it a lot easier.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Thank you very much.

Mr. André, you have five minutes.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

I want to share my time with Mr. Vincent.

My question is quite simple: do you speak French? Whenever I ask you a question, you answer in English. I will take my question a step further, because there are veterans who complain that they do not have access to adequate services in French.

Today, I asked you some questions, and each time, you answered in English. I would like you to answer my question. First off, why do you answer in English? And are services available to veterans in French? I am asking because I have gotten a number of complaints about that.

[Jane Hicks]

Absolutely. Services are available to veterans in both official languages across Canada, especially when it comes to the calling network, which is available in both official languages; we have an English line and a French line. Even the district offices have francophone and anglophone counsellors, especially in Ottawa, Quebec and New Brunswick. Services are available in both languages throughout Canada. Occasionally, there are problems with service providers, but, generally speaking, it works.

[Brenda MacCormack]

The reason we chose not to speak in French, even though we can, is that—

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Excuse me, Madam MacCormack.

Go ahead, Mr. Tilson.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

I think it's fair to question the process, but I think it's most inappropriate for Monsieur André to question witnesses as to which language they're going to speak. They can speak English or they can speak French, just as you or I can if we wish.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Can I respond, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

On the same point, Mr. André.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Quite simply, I think it is an important issue, because there are a number of veterans complaining that they do not have access to services in French. I simply asked the witnesses, who are employees of the Department of Veterans Affairs, if they could speak French. I think it is very relevant in terms of implementing the charter and providing services to French-speaking veterans.

I do not see why Mr. Tilson has a problem.

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

You can return to your questioning.

I think the point Mr. Tilson is making, if somebody has a language preference and can articulate their answer more effectively in one language than the other, then of course they always have the freedom here of speaking in either official language. That's why we have translation.

So certainly continue with your answer, Madam MacCormack.

[Guy André, Bloc, Berthier—Maskinongé, QC]

Now that I have asked my question, Mr. Vincent will take over.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You are all directors. I just wanted to know whether people in more senior positions could speak French and communicate with people in French. I was just wondering about that.

Earlier, if I am not mistaken, we talked about the 75% amount allocated to an individual who receives a disability award of 100%. That person would receive 75% of the gross amount they were making at the time of the incident. Earlier, Ms. Sgro said that the 75% plus the lump sum payment of $260,000 added up to a lot of money.

I did a few quick calculations. Over a period of 40 years—in the case of a 25-year-old receiving the pension until the age of 65—$260,000 works out to $542 a month. So that means $542 a month plus a pension. If that person was making $40,000 a year, they would receive a gross amount equivalent to 75% of that, in other words, $30,000, which is subject to source deductions, leaving the person with around $21,000. If you add $6,500 to that—I did another calculation using the monthly amount to get the total annual amount—it comes out to approximately $27,000 a year.

So the person who received a disability award of 100% gets $27,000 a year; that is all. If they have two children and a house payment, how can they live on $27,000 a year?

[Brenda MacCormack]

The way the earnings loss benefit is currently constructed, it's 75% of the salary they were making at the time of release, and the minimum standard is—

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That is gross.

[Brenda MacCormack]

—the senior private, which is $46,000, so they would be receiving $36,000 a year. The $21,000 in terms of the annual amount that one would be receiving would not be realistic in terms of how it's—

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Very well. If I understand correctly, an entry-level private in the Canadian Forces makes $46,000 a year. He enlists and makes $46,000 a year. I was sure they earned $40,000 a year, but if you say it is $46,000, I will take your word for it. My calculations were based on a salary of $40,000; 75% of $40,000 is $30,000, and that is gross, not net. So it should actually be 75% of $46,000, which is $36,000, less source deductions.

Regardless, I am not sure that that is enough for someone to support their family on, when they themselves need special care on a daily basis because they are quadriplegic and have a 100% disability. How can they survive on that?

[Brenda MacCormack]

That's a very important question in terms of the level that is enough to enable somebody to participate in rehabilitation if that's the goal, or live their life with dignity over the longer term if they're unable to work. Those kinds of observations certainly have been made by many of the groups that have looked at the new Veterans Charter, and the sufficiency of the income stream in certain cases has been identified as a gap. It's one of the areas that's currently being looked at by the department in terms of what is enough.

There's a lot of geography across this country, but I think the challenge is to sort out a reasonable monthly income stream in the variety of different circumstances we have. They may well be entitled to other streams of--

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

[Inaudible--Editor].

[The Chair, Conservative, David Sweet]

Mr. Vincent, we're way over the time limit now. I'm trying to be fair to everybody, and I have ten minutes left.

Mr. Kerr and then over to Mr. Oliphant and Madam Sgro.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

We've heard quite a bit about the difficulties for the new vets, and Afghanistan is mainly mentioned. How do you see your programs adjusting and changing as their needs and demands come into focus? What kind of pressure is that going to have on the charter itself?

[Brenda MacCormack]

The programs as they're currently structured certainly go a long way to meeting those needs in terms of the focus on rehabilitation: giving people opportunities to live independently; the capacity we have to look at the person, their situation, their family situation, their community situation; and trying to respond in a more holistic way to achieve the best outcome possible.

I think we certainly have that properly constructed, and that will continue to evolve. We have built into the legislation the capacity to continue to evolve the rehabilitation program to be in line with best practice as we go forward. So as new evidence comes forward about the most appropriate kinds of interventions that achieve the best outcomes, then we're well positioned to respond to that.

In terms of the other complementary benefits--and we've had lots of discussion here today about the financial benefits and whether they are adequate--those issues are currently being looked at. Not only have we had multiple reports from committees, but we also are undertaking an internal evaluation of the new Veterans Charter, which is looking at how it's working and if it's going to be prepared to respond in the future.

So it's all those pieces, not just the new Veterans Charter, but the complementary pieces that need to go along with that, like enhancing case management so we have staff prepared to deal with these clients, making sure we have the appropriate mental health supports in place across the country.

We're on the bases. We're building relationships with the Canadian Forces at the local level, and that's where we're going to see lots of solutions for these clients, because our people are involved from the get-go. From the time they're injured, there's an opportunity to build the trust, do the transition planning, and carry on.

[Janice Burke]

When you compare our population of clients who have been to Afghanistan in multiple deployments and are suffering from mental health issues, 56% of them are under the age of 39; in our general population of veterans who have mental health conditions, 14% of them are under the age of 39. The number of our veterans under 30 is growing.

If we didn't have this kind of programming in place, the only thing we could offer them would be a disability pension; and again, it would be the focus on illness and promoting that way forward, as opposed to, if they're transitioning, we can work with them in terms of getting them to better integrate into the communities, better support their families, help them with the job and their economic benefits. It's really helping us meet the determinants of health. We haven't been able to do that before.

[Greg Kerr, Conservative, West Nova, NS]

Thank you.